--- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'll make an exception and reply to one of Swami J's
> posts here, because she *knows* that what she's implying
> below isn't true.
> 
> BTW, you'll notice that disciple John is letting Swami J
> fight his battles for him. Get used to it. 


You're attacking Judy, asshole, not me. And what makes you think your
perpetual self-apparent ego act warrants any automatic response from
me? Oh yeah, it's part of your phony act.


> 
> --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote:
> >
> > A few of the details in Barry's account didn't quite
> > sound right to me, so I decided to check on the earlier
> > versions Barry has related on FFL and alt.m.t.  ...
> > 
> > And here's an earlier version from FFL, a year ago:
> > 
> > ========
> > 
> > > LOL, didn't Charlie say something to M like "Maharishi, an
> > > hour and a half? I wouldn't wait an hour and a half for
> > > Jesus Christ!"
> > 
> > Yup, almost word for word. I was the "door guy" at
> > the hotel room door that night. I told the folks
> > inside that Charlie was there, and watched them
> > tell Maharishi. Charlie waited for an hour or so,
> > and then stormed off, shouting those words. Later,
> > because I was the door guy, I was the one who
> > Maharishi told Charlie was to blame for keeping
> > him out: "They never told me." They told him.
> > 
> > ========
> > 
> > In the current account, it was Charlie *making up*
> > a "grand paranoid tale" about "Jerry's minions"
> > keeping him out of the room.
> > 
> > But last year, it was MMY himself who told Charlie
> > that.
> 
> As you well know, Swami J ( recognize the phrase
> "As you well know"? :-), that part came *after* 
> the part of the story I just retold. It happened 
> at the airport the next day, when Charlie showed 
> up to see Maharishi, having blown him off the 
> night before.
> 
> Charlie went up to Maharishi and said something
> to the effect of, "I was there at the hotel last
> night, but they told me to wait outside."
> 
> Maharishi looked Charlie straight in the eye and
> said, "No one ever told me you were there."
> 
> THAT is a LIE.
> 
> I *watched* the person tell him. I *watched* MMY
> tell the guy to tell me to have Charlie wait. 
> And Jerry Jarvis and a couple of other close
> friends (not to mention Merv and Clint) were
> sitting right there close enough to *hear* him
> say it. Jerry and the others confirmed this to
> me after the Charlieshit later hit the fan.
> 
> But now, face to face with Charlie Lutes, Maharishi
> told him that "No one told me." 
> 
> Go figure, eh? That's a Zen puzzler for those of
> you who think Maharishi never lies.
> 
> But even more so, it's a head-scratcher for those
> who think Swami J never lies. She just got back
> from reading the earlier version of these stories,
> so she knows what went down, and in what sequence.
> But that's not quite how she told it, is it?
> 
> > ========
> > 
> > I was once or twice the target of some of Charlie's pettiness.  Do 
> > you remember the story I related here recently of being stuck on 
> > "door duty" the night Merv and Clint were there and Maharishi 
> > kept Charlie waiting in the hall for several hours?  Well, after 
> > that 
> > particular incident, because I was the asshole at the door, Charlie 
> > decided that *I* was the one who had "kept him away from MMY." 
> > The fact that I often attended his Friday night meetings and had 
> > been on very friendly terms with him up to that point didn't seem 
> > to factor into his thinking -- I was at the door, I was to blame. 
> > So he launched a campaign to get me fired from my plush :-) 
> > $500-a-month job at the Regional Office, calling Maharishi in 
> > Switzerland several times to accomplish this.  (Somehow I survived.)
> > 
> > ========
> > 
> > Oops. In this version, Barry seems to have
> > "forgotten" that it was MMY who told Charlie
> > Barry was the one to have kept him out of
> > the room. We're back to Charlie's "paranoia"
> > again.
> 
> Not true. Maharishi never assigned blame. If I said
> so earlier that was fast writing on my part. He merely
> lied and said to Charlie, "No one ever told me you
> were there." Charlie *assumed* it was me who had lied
> to him about telling Maharishi when I came back out
> and told him that Maharishi had asked for him to
> wait.
> 
> > But here we do see Barry's motivation for
> > sneaking a tape recorder into one of Charlie's
> > lectures, in revenge for Charlie having tried
> > to get him fired.
> 
> The tape recorder incident was months before the
> Merv taping. 
> 
> As you might say, Oooopsie.  :-)
>  
> > Or, did Charlie try to get Barry fired *because*
> > Barry had surreptitiously taped his lecture to
> > make him look bad, and because MMY had told him
> > Barry and Jerry's other "minions" were responsible
> > for his not being able to see MMY?
> 
> Charlie never knew I taped any of his lectures.
> He didn't know me except to say Hi to before the 
> incident at the airport. It was only after that 
> that we began to hear reports of him going to Maharishi
> and trying to get me fired from the Regional Office.
>  
> But let's spend a moment on "surrepititiously taped
> his lecture to make him look bad."
> 
> That's quite a view of the universe you have there,
> Swami J. Now I understand why you were so upset about
> the Things TMers Believe series of quotes I collected.
> You're under the impression that taping or reposting
> someone's exact words is an attempt to make them look
> bad. I taped the *entire lectures*. The entire talks
> were on the tapes, and never got edited from the 
> tapes, so you can't even pitch a hissy fit and claim
> "OUT OF CONTEXT" in a loud, hysterical voice the
> way you did with the Things TMers Believe series.
> 
> They were *his* words, just as he said them. And you
> are trying to make someone recording them *at the
> request of the TM International Staff* a bad thing.
> Any other time, you'd be giving me shit for *not*
> doing exactly as I was told.  :-)
> 
> Then again, you are busy defending John Manning for
> calling Edg a liar, something he has *no way* of 
> knowing is true. And then again, *you* tend to call
> people liars yourself, often when you have no earthly
> way of knowing that that's true. What a fuckin' loon.
> 
> > Only Barry knows what the time sequence was here.
> > But one way or another, it appears that Charlie
> > had plenty of reason to dislike and distrust 
> > Barry.
> 
> Which is interesting, because before his rather
> juvenile attempts to extract "retribution" on me
> for an imagined affront, I didn't dislike Charlie
> at all. I found him amusing and didn't take him the
> *least* bit seriously. I kinda considered him a 
> buffoon, same as I consider you. (Only I respected
> Charlie more.) I did the taping thing because I was 
> asked to, and the *reason* I was asked to was that 
> I was the only one who worked at National who had 
> a small minicassette recorder.  :-)
> 
> It wasn't even National's *idea* to check up on
> Charlie's lectures and see what he was saying.
> They were told to do so by International Staff.
> 
> > ========
> > 
> > I was in a position several times to see how Maharishi treated
> > Charlie. He often kept him waiting in hallways for *hours*,
> > knowing full well that he was there, knowing he was impatient
> > and would sooner or later throw a tantrum and stalk off, and
> > then, just when Charlie was about to storm off in a snit,
> > Maharishi would call him into the room and then say, "Oh, they
> > (meaning Jerry and/or whoever was on 'door duty' that night)
> > never told me you were there."
> 
> There were other instances where MMY kept Charlie
> waiting, and then called for him *just* as he was
> about to leave. The evening before the second 
> Merv taping wasn't one of them. Charlie managed
> to stalk off *before* Maharishi invited him in
> this time.
> 
> > ========
> > 
> > And now we're back to the alternate story again,
> > that MMY regularly blamed Jerry and "his minions"
> > for keeping Charlie out of the room.
> 
> I don't think it has *ever* been suggested that 
> "MMY regularly blamed Jerry and 'his minions' for 
> keeping Charlie out of the room." Swami J just made 
> that up. Maharishi often *claimed to Charlie* that 
> they hadn't told him that he was waiting, but they 
> always had, and Maharishi knew that. Everyone would 
> have been too *afraid* of Maharishi to *not* tell 
> him that Charlie was there. Maharishi was lying to 
> Charlie, and shifting the blame to "Jerry's kids."
> 
> It was Charlie and *his* minions who claimed that it
> was all a big plot on the part of Jerry and "his"
> TM teachers. Not MMY. It is my belief that this story 
> was started by Charlie himself, after the incident at 
> the airport.
> 
> > ========
> > 
> > As for the situation at hand, I'll let you decide. I was the poor 
> > schmuck stuck with "door duty" one night in L.A. when the people 
> > waiting in the hall were Merv Griffin, Clint Eastwood, Charlie, and 
> > about a dozen Just Meditators.  I had dutifully announced everyone 
> > as they arrived to Maharishi, so he knew they were there. Merv and 
> > Clint got in first.  Their TV show was the next day; it was an 
> > etiquette no-brainer. :-) Then a couple of the Just Meditators got
> > let in. One of them was a young woman I had announced several times,
> > because I'd talked with her a little about why she was there. Then,
> > after a few hours, Maharishi called Charlie in. 
> > 
> > Anyway, I guess my point is, "How do you think I *should* have 
> > acted?" 
> > 
> > I, as a mid-level flunky so far down on the Power Chain that I was 
> > stuck outside the door while all the action was going down in the 
> > room, guess I could have done more to get the Important people in. 
> > Merv and Clint only waited a few minutes, but I guess I could have
> > announced Charlie twice. Or maybe three times, since he was so 
> > Important. 
> > 
> > =========
> > 
> > This one's really interesting. It appears to
> > be the same *occasion*, the night before the Merv
> > taping. But in this version, Charlie waits for hours
> > and finally *is* let in.
> 
> No, Maharishi asked for Charlie to come in about one
> minute after he had stormed off in a snit. He never
> got in that night. You may look upon this as some kind 
> of psychic "seeing" on MMY's part if you'd like, and 
> I know you'd probably like.  :-)
> 
> > And Barry acknowledges this time that he *did* have
> > a hand in keeping Charlie out, by choosing to announce
> > him only once, when Charlie might have gotten in if
> > MMY had been reminded that he was still waiting.
> 
> I announced *everyone* once, to the persons inside 
> the room who were in charge of determining who was
> to be admitted to a closed business meeting. That's
> how it was done. No one was ever forgotten. Their
> names went on a written list, as I'm sure did 
> Charlie Lutes' that night.
> 
> I made an exception and announced the young woman 
> more than once because she was dying.
> 
> I suppose you're going to find a way to demonize
> *that* in me, too. 
> 
> I suppose *you* would have announced Charlie multiple
> times, right? Yeah, right...the only reason you're
> defending Charlie now is because I gave John a hard
> time, and you've got to "defend your disciple." You
> don't think much of Charlie Lutes, either, and have
> said so rather overtly in the past.
> 
> You're just taking advantage of the situation to 
> blast me. Which is a really pissy-assed and childish
> thing to do, in my opinion. You seem to have attained 
> the same emotional and behavioral age as Charlie Lutes.
> 
> Having made one exception, I've changed my mind about 
> not reading your posts and/or replying to them for two 
> months. 
> 
> Make it four months. If you're lucky.
> 
> The first "penalty" was just for being a chronic
> overposting asshole. This one's just for being you.
>


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