--- In [email protected], "do.rflex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "jim_flanegin" <jflanegi@> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "do.rflex" <do.rflex@> 
> > wrote:
> 
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > > > If Charlie Lutes said that it is just foolishness-- Had I 
heard 
> > him 
> > > > today my question would have been, "How does one so 
perfectly 
> > > > attuned with the Divine turn away from his own nature?". 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I don't agree that Maharishi is "so perfectly attuned with the
> > > Divine." I believe that Maharishi is very advanced and has some
> > > spiritual 'powers'. But I don't think he's tuned to the Divine 
such
> > > that he's immune from doing wrong [adharmic] things. 
> > 
> > It is my experience that anyone who is "very advanced" will not 
act 
> > adharmically, and do wrong. We apparently differ here. 
> 
> 
> Indeed we do. Maharishi does stuff that directly contradicts my 
whole
>  God-given sense of right and wrong and of what my experience of TM
> tells me is such.
> 
> 
> > I do not 
> > consider anyone who is still a seeker very advanced. It is my 
direct 
> > experience that Maharishi is no longer a seeker.:-)
> 
> 
> That's self-serving circular logic, Jim.

Yes, I have never found logic, circular or otherwise to be much of a 
substitute for experience. Sounds like you understand that 
difference too.:-)

<snip>
There's nothing wrong with money per se. It's how it's acquired
> and how it's used that comes under scrutiny with Maharishi. You 
CANNOT
> purchase heaven with money. It doesn't work that way.

OK, I wasn't sure what your earlier reference with regard to money 
meant. Yes, I agree that you cannot purchase heaven with anything 
other than good karma.:-)

> (There is a very wealthy guy who wrote to
> alt.meditation.transcendental in the recent past and told everyone
> that he was paying for lots of yagyas to be performed for him to 
bring
> him blessings and enlightenment. The first time the guy revealed 
all
> of this, he came off as an unstable nutjob. A few months later he 
said
> that all was peachy and that the yagyas seemed to be producing the
> results. And he still came off as an unstable nutjob. Maybe the 
yagyas
> were helping him somehow, but the transformation to self-
realization
> can only come from within one's own self. It cannot be handed to 
you
> as an object. It cannot be purchased like a commodity at Home 
Depot.)
> 
> There was a time when Maharishi made it clear that nature will 
provide
> on the basis of inner attunement with the Divine. Clearly Maharishi
> has turned that around 180 degrees and now pitches for acquiring 
the
> money FIRST (instead of FIRST seeking the Divine) to ostensibly BUY
> the Kingdom of God via his co$tly, often bizarre and often 
abandoned
> projects. Those projects most often don't materialize, but where 
does
> the mega cash disappear to?
 
> > Money is one of the greatest tools on earth we have available to 
us 
> > for spiritual growth and advancement. I find it very strange to 
hear 
> > so called spiritually oriented people decry the use of money for 
> > spiritual pursuits. Similar to those who say that the ego must 
be 
> > killed to achieve enlightenment. Silliness.:-)  
> >  
> > > > Easy 
> > > > enough to do with clear intentions and enough 
> > practice; "Practice 
> > > > makes perfect".:-)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Like I said, it isn't about the TM technique, it's about 
Maharishi.
> > > Advancement on the path doesn't mean you throw your brains out 
the
> > > window and ignore the weird abberations in people's behavior, 
even 
> > in
> > > Maharishi.
> > >
> > Fair enough. Now, what if the shoe were on the other foot? What 
if 
> > you could dictate *exactly* how Maharishi should act, in your 
view,  
> > with Maharishi listening to every suggestion you made of him, 
and 
> > following through on it? 
> 
> 
> All I have to do is to compare how Maharishi is operating with how
> Guru Dev affected results, and to Guru Dev's standards which to me 
are
> strikingly contradictory to what Maharishi is doing. 
> these things - no, my hearts screams these things to me, and has my
> whole life - and I don't abandon my heart. That's where Guru Dev
> resides along with Paramatman along with my God-given inborn sense 
of
> the difference between right and wrong.
> 
> 
> > Or if this ability were expanded to dictate how anyone else in 
the 
> > entire world would act; entire countries, heads of state, people 
> > past, present and future? Would you be happier, would that solve 
all 
> > of your issues and problems?
> 
> 
> It doesn't work that way. And I'm not attempting to make it work 
that
> way. I'm simply pointing out what's obvious to me. It's as if the
> emperor has no clothes and NO ONE with any credibility will say it 
out
> loud - even though many are thinking it and wishing to God that it
> would somehow be directly addressed - as it's blatantly obvious and
> blatantly in front of everybody's faces - unless they've been 
overcome
> by the fog and ignorance of true believer syndrome and wishful 
thinking.
> 
> And that's where one finds the apologists, the true believers who 
make
> excuses for what's obviously aberrant.

> > Or at the end of the day, would you still be reduced to... you?  
> > Dealing with you, and continuing to see the world as you always 
have 
> > seen it, dealing with the same issues you have always dealt 
with, 
> > regardless of Maharishi's, or anyone else's actions?:-)

> That goes without saying for anyone, eh?  But it amounts to a red
> herring in this discussion about Maharishi's actions and how one
> perceives one's self in relationship to Maharishi. That seems to be
> the core difference between our views [yours and mine] of the 
matter. 
> 
> Maharishi made it clear at the TTC I attended that he is NOT 
anyone's
> personal master. Of course at the time [1970], being totally
> overwhelmed by him, I felt otherwise - even to the extent that 
when he
> made me a teacher I reverently said to him that "I pray that I can
> serve you well, Maharishi." He immediately retorted , "No, just
> radiate Being." And he repeated it, "Just radiate Being."

Great! Thanks for sharing this inspirational story -- It certainly 
explains my inner relationship with the man all of these years.

I didn't know that you had been a TM teacher. Thank you for that-- a 
great great service to humanity. As for resolving feelings about who 
Maharishi is or was or will be, thanks for sharing what your 
thoughts are about it. I wish you speedy and eternal enlightenment, 
John!:-) 

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