Robert,

My responses were just simplied/"easy to read" answers to your questions. 
For full technical details, architecture schema of the security, you 
will need to contact Seagate." I can tell you however, that Seagate's 
FDE drives (like the one in Black Armor) is based on the trusted 
storage specs from the Trusted Computing Group:
https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/specs/Storage/

Scott

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008, Robert Wann wrote:

> Scott,
>
> Thank you. Speaking of preserving AES key and SecurityID as well as other 
> vital information, I suspect it is the drive controller and its firmware that 
> controls the hidden sectors access, not the encryption/decryption ASIC, for 
> the reasons that the AES key and SecurityID won't get destroyed during 
> another round of partition and format.
>
>> From reading your remark, It seems to me that AES key is guarded by either 
>> SecurityID or User's Password, which are all written into the hidden sectors 
>> controlled by the drive firmware. Your remark "This is part of the FDE 
>> "enclosed" construct. AES key is only known and used by the drive" does not 
>> offer the complete security architecture of the FDE drive thus is not 
>> persuasive.
>
> By the way, are you an employee or affiliate of Seagate?
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 6:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [FDE] What is the Security ID on a Seagate Maxtor Black Armor 
> drive?
>
>
>> Robert,
>>
>> See response below.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>> If the true AES key is erased and a new AES key is generated upon
>>> 'KeyErase' command, would you require user to perform partition and
>>> format after such action?
>>
>> Yes, the user is require setup a new password and format the drive.
>>
>>> Also, since the Security ID is permanently
>>> stored inside the FDE drive, would such new partition and format
>>> effectively destroy the new AES key along with the Security ID?
>>
>> No. Formatting does not affect the AES key and Security ID at all. It is
>> in a area protected from any external i/o access. The ASIC chip on the
>> drive that is processing the automatic encryption/decryption preserves
>> these vital information (and other things) in a way that is totally
>> transparent to the user (and OS), once the user has authenticated.
>>
>>> How would you guarantee that AES key is safe and can not be extracted?
>>
>> This is part of the FDE "enclosed" construct. AES key is only known and
>> used by the drive.
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Scott S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "Robert Wann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>
>>> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:49 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [FDE] What is the Security ID on a Seagate Maxtor Black Armor 
>>> drive?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Robert,
>>>>
>>>> See response below.
>>>>
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 13 Nov 2008, Robert Wann wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Scott,
>>>>>
>>>>> As the Security ID serves as a default password to unlock the FDE drive 
>>>>> inside the Black Armor, am I correct to assume that such unlock action 
>>>>> releases the true AES 128-bit key to allow the operation of the FDE drive?
>>>>
>>>> Correct.
>>>>
>>>>> If that's the case, do users require to partition and format the FDE 
>>>>> drive >after the default password entry?
>>>>
>>>> No, the password change does not affect the drive format given that the 
>>>> password is not the AES key. FYI, from the factory the drive comes 
>>>> partitioned and formatted as NTFS.
>>>>
>>>>> What happens to the AES key if user establishes a new password?
>>>>
>>>> Stays the same. The user is just changing the password that unlocks the 
>>>> AES key.
>>>>
>>>>> Can user get to generate the AES key or it is a default value stored 
>>>>> protected >by the Security ID at default and later at new password entry?
>>>>
>>>> The management software that comes with Black Armor provides a "KeyErase" 
>>>> feature. This feature is the same as a cryptographical erase (or 
>>>> crypo-erase) of the drive. If you were to perform this action, what is 
>>>> really happening is that the original AES key is destroyed, and a new AES 
>>>> key generate by drive itself. The AES key is not visible/accessiable to 
>>>> anyone/thing, except the drive itself. So yes, the user can generate it, 
>>>> but the user will never get to see it.
>>>>
>>>>> When you said the Security ID is also needed when the Black Armor hard 
>>>>> drive > needs to be cryptographically erased, exactly what do you mean
>>>>> by "cryptographically erase?"
>>>>
>>>> By this I mean having the "effect" of erasing the drive so that all the 
>>>> data is no longer accessiable.
>>>>
>>>>> Is it an action that erases the true AES key or is it an action that 
>>>>> erases the previously established user's password?
>>>>
>>>> It is both. When the user does a "KeyErase", few things happens: 1) a new 
>>>> AES key is generated 2) the password is "defaulted" to the Security ID 3) 
>>>> the user is prompted to enter a new password. 4) the user is prompted to 
>>>> format the drive.
>>>>
>>>>> You also said: After the erase, the default password again becomes the 
>>>>> Security ID. Does this mean the FDE drive permanently stores the Security 
>>>>> ID?
>>>>
>>>> Correct. The Security ID is permanent and does not change. Having said 
>>>> that, it's function is very specific and does not affect the data security 
>>>> itself. It severs more as an identification. For example, it prevents 
>>>> mallicious programs from automatically performing a "KeyErase", because 
>>>> the programs can't ID the drive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Robert Wann
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Scott S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>> To: <[email protected]>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:27 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [FDE] What is the Security ID on a Seagate Maxtor Black 
>>>>> Armor drive?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Dave,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Security ID serves two functions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) It is the default password of the Black Armor. Like the way a user 
>>>>>> needs the old password to change to a new password, the Security ID 
>>>>>> serves as the old password.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) The Security ID is also needed when the Black Armor hard drive needs 
>>>>>> to be cryptographically erased (because the user wants to, or because 
>>>>>> the user forgot the password). After the erase, the default password 
>>>>>> again becomes the Security ID.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the decision point of developing Black Armor was, what to do when 
>>>>>> the user forgets the password. Should the drive become totally useless?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The arguement for making it into a "brick" if the password is not known 
>>>>>> is that is reduces the "steal value" of the device.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the Black Armor, if the password is not known, it can be reused. But 
>>>>>> first the data needs to be wipeout.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Dave Jevans wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just setup a Seagate/Maxtor Black Armor hardware encrypted drive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When you setup the device, and before you choose your password, you
>>>>>>> have to enter in a 25 character "Security ID" which looks like a
>>>>>>> software license key, and is printed on the back of the drive's case.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why would you have to do this?  Since it's printed on the outside of
>>>>>>> the case, why doesn't the device already know this serial number
>>>>>>> internally, and why would it care?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Initially my skeptical mind figured this is actually the AES key, or
>>>>>>> a back-door encryption key.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But with more thought, I figured that perhaps it's because the device
>>>>>>> is manufactured in China, and it's a clone prevention technique?
>>>>>>> Maybe the sticker is added to the device when they are packaged in
>>>>>>> the US, and the security ID number is needed to activate the
>>>>>>> encryption?  This prevents a Chinese factory from creating clone
>>>>>>> devices using their controller?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone from Seagate on this list that can comment?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> FDE mailing list
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>>>>>>> http://www.xml-dev.com/mailman/listinfo/fde
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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