Indeed, the keyboard should work just fine, together with OS-dependent tools/techniques.
"why bother about it in the admin client?" - the feeling I got was that people might find this method a bit cumbersome - too many Alt+xxx codes to remember, so the question is, do we want to include something in the UI to provide some kind of "shortcut" for this? -----Original Message----- From: Razum, Matthias [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 19 August 2009 13:21 To: Steve Bayliss; Schwichtenberg, Frank; Richard Green; Fedora Commons Developers Subject: RE: [Fedora-commons-developers] New admin client > That still leaves open as to how characters such as © should be > entered in the admin client. Hmm, don't get me wrong, but what about the keyboard? If I don't have a key for a symbol (the © might be an example, depending on your keyboard layout), than you probably have an option to add that character by other means (ALT + 0169, charmap, ...). As these techniques are OS-dependent, why bother about it in the admin client? In my opinion, the client should just ensure that they are properly handled. Matthias. > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Bayliss [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 12:27 PM > To: Schwichtenberg, Frank; 'Richard Green'; 'Fedora Commons > Developers' > Subject: Re: [Fedora-commons-developers] New admin client > > I think you have hit the nail on the head - we need to be clear about > the difference between the content (displayed in the editor) and the > serialization of the content (to XML). > > So yes, if you type "a<b" in the editor, it should correctly handle > translation between the displayed format and the xml serialisation. > And should correctly translate between a displayed "&" and serialised > "&". > > That still leaves open as to how characters such as © should be > entered in the admin client. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Schwichtenberg, Frank [mailto:frank.schwichtenb...@fiz- > Karlsruhe.DE] > Sent: 19 August 2009 10:41 > To: Richard Green; Steve Bayliss; Fedora Commons Developers > Subject: AW: [Fedora-commons-developers] New admin client > > > > Hello, > > one part of the problem seems to be the encoding of special > characters in XML. There is a difference between content and the XML > serialization of content. If I put the string a<b in an editors > field I would expect a<b inside the XML document. Showing the > content from that XML document to a user the entity reference must be > resolved to the character it stands for resulting in a<b. That > should be done for all special characters and so, there is no problem > with entity references as content. The string a © b is > serialized in XML as a &copy; b. Using that content in a HTML > document the entity reference must be resolved to the appropriate > character. > > > > Maybe I did not get the problem > > > > Cheers, Frank > > > > Von: Richard Green [mailto:[email protected]] > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. August 2009 11:25 > An: Steve Bayliss; Fedora Commons Developers > Betreff: Re: [Fedora-commons-developers] New admin client > > > > Potentially there could be a problem with re-editing? > > > > Personally I can live with a copyright symbol being © but see > below. There are other things that give problems too. The real > issue, I suggest, is with (eg) dc:description. Like it or not there > will be people using the editor to edit their descriptive metadata and > so dc:description is going to get things like abstracts thrown at it. > From bitter experience I know that chemical (etc) abstracts regularly > contain < (concentrations < 5ppm) and all abstracts are capable of > producing a & when youre not looking. Both these, predictably, > cause the editor to panic. > > > > So, you put in the numeric codes and save, and when you re-open, what > have you got? < and & So why cant I put these in in the > first place (I can), and also © (I cant). Its inconsistent. > Putting in < or & with Alt+xxx isnt going to help youll just get > an illegal character. > > > > If we go for numeric codes there are too many to remember, so a > drop-down? > > > > R > > _________________________________________________________________ > __ > > > > Richard Green > > Consultant to the University of Hull IT Systems Group > > managing the CLIF and Hydra (Hull) Projects > > > > http://edocs.hull.ac.uk > > http://www.hull.ac.uk/clif > > https://fedora-commons.org/confluence/display/hydra > > > > > > > > From: Steve Bayliss [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 18 August 2009 17:09 > To: 'Fedora Commons Developers' > Cc: Richard Green > Subject: Re: [Fedora-commons-developers] New admin client > > > > We had a discussion on this on the Committer Meeting call today. > > > > Taking a look at http://dublincore.org/documents/dcmes-xml/, 2.5. > Language and character encoding - this says that HTML entities should > not be used; but for instance © for the copyright symbol is ok. > And the way that the DC datastream is wrapped in FOXML would cause > problems in declaring these HTML entities. So in the FOXML the HTML > entities (if allowed in the admin client) would need converting to the > character code representations. > > > > It would seem that this is really a usability issue for the new admin > client - ie how to make it easy for users to enter symbols such as the > copyright symbol? > > > > Should the admin client handle this at all, or leave it to the > platform to deal with (eg, in Windows you could enter © by typing > Alt+01699, or by using Character Map)? > > > > What do people think? Provide buttons/dropdowns etc for entering > special symbols; allow typing HTML entities but convert straight to > the character code equivalent? Other suggestions? > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Branan [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 05 August 2009 15:12 > To: Peter Cliff > Cc: Richard Green; Fedora Commons Developers > Subject: Re: [Fedora-commons-developers] New admin client > > Hi Pete, > > > > I believe that you're correct in that the entity definitions for > these characters are just not included, so when the XML is processed > during the add/modify datastream calls the parsing fails. I've added > an issue in JIRA for this: http://fedora- > commons.org/jira/browse/FCREPO-520. > > > > Bill > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 6:04 AM, Peter Cliff > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Possibly not relevant at all - having not tried to enter & anything > into > the new admin client! ;-) - but (I expect you know) you need to > define > entities with names (©) etc. > > See: > > http://www.xml.com/pub/a/98/08/xmlqna2.html > http://www.tizag.com/xmlTutorial/xmlentity.php > > So my guess is that somewhere some XML parsing/creating is happening > behind the scenes of that client and it is throwing the > whole thing off > when the XML processing fails on account of an undefined > entity? > > I couldn't find any entity definitions for the HTML named ones in > the > src/xsd/ (aside from the reference in xhtml1-strict.xsd). Do there > need > to be some? > > Hope that is useful and not teaching either of you to suck eggs! ;-) > > Pete Cliff > OULS > > ------------------------------------------------------- Fachinformationszentrum Karlsruhe, Gesellschaft für wissenschaftlich-technische Information mbH. Sitz der Gesellschaft: Eggenstein-Leopoldshafen, Amtsgericht Mannheim HRB 101892. Geschäftsführerin: Sabine Brünger-Weilandt. Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: MinR Hermann Riehl. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Fedora-commons-developers mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fedora-commons-developers
