Aaron Siri wrote:
I also care about what is being packaged in my bundle and via the pom *I'm*
making all my decisions - they aren't ad-hoc. If I select an api/library to
use I usually accept it as a whole and don't start micromanaging it or pull
it apart (unless it starts to break, then all bets are off.) I get the
impression here that some people think that maven is a form of voodoo and you
never know what it is doing or that it can't be trusted. I always know
exactly what is going to be pulled and know when I should short-circuit the
dependency tree. Why should *you* dictate what *I* can and can't trust? We
are all professional coders here and can make our own decisions.
I think the issue here is that Peter is not coming from a Maven
perspective, since he doesn't use Maven.
If you want to flatten and optimize the bundle then that is your prerogative,
but can't that be a separate step? Right now the plugin doesn't even give
you an option, it forces one way of doing things. We're just asking for more
options. The auto Import/Export stuff is attractive which is why we don't
really want to abandon maven-bundle-plugin. We just wish it let us choose
how jar dependencies are handled - either inline the classes and treat them
as your own code (what the plugin does now), or bundle them as is and add
them to Bundle-ClassPath (what some of us prefer.) In both cases isn't the
bundle's integrity maintained via Export-Package?
As I stated a few times before, I think it is possible to come up with a
solution, but we need the time to think about it and discuss it.
When Peter gets back from traveling, he and I will try to discuss some
approaches to dealing with this issue and we will post a proposal to the
list for discussion. Sound reasonable?
-> richard
-Aaron
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Kriens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 10:24 AM
To: Henrik Larsson
Cc: felix-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re[2]: Bundle plugin: Importing packages from non-bundles
For me the difference between a bundle and a jar is arbitrary. I always try
to make my bundles work as jars.
I really think that the "simple" rules posted are too ad hoc and will
generate lots of problems. In my experience, the contents of your bundle need
to be designed and not some more or less arbitrary collection of jars and
packages, mostly decided by other people than me. If code gets into MY
bundle, I feel responsible and want to know exactly what the consequences
are. Leaving this up to chance and other people's ad hoc decisions seems a
tad to dangerous for me.
The plugin/bnd was designed to carve the bundle out of the classpath and then
analyze it so you can inspect the consequences.
Kind regards,
Peter Kriens
HL> I'm a co-worker with Emil, so we share the same view on this (I hope ;)
).
HL> On 12/6/06, Aaron Siri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
After our discussion I decided to go back and give the old plugin a
try. It is definitely buggy. It seems to randomly add packages to
Import-Package no matter where they come from (plain old jars or
bundles.) Maybe it is just me but I can't make any sense in what it is
doing.
I think Emil (correct me if I'm wrong) and I would both like to see
only packages from bundle dependencies added to Import-Package, not
stuff from embedded plain old jars (which should instead be added to
the classpath.) The new plugin's behavior for this is nice, as long
as it only looks at bundle dependencies and not jar dependencies. I
think Emil is then saying that if both a bundle and a plain old jar
provide a package then don't put it on Import-Package (i.e. let it
resolve to the plain old jar via the
classpath.) The embedded plain old jars should override bundles
(maybe OSGi spec already dictates this.)
HL> Yes, this is exactly the kind of behavior we are looking for.
HL> It would be nice if everything could be bundles, but as that is not
HL> the case we want to be able to embed plain old jars in our bundles
HL> (preferably not inlined, but that's not a major point). Then
HL> Import-Package should *only* contain packages that are exported by
HL> other bundles, not packages used from plain old jars that are in the
HL> Bundle-Classpath.
The Bundle-Classpath entry from the old plugin looks good though.
So, is anybody invited to work on the plugins?
-Aaron
P.S. I want to thank Richard and Peter for putting up with all of my
questions/complaints. I'm learning a lot in this newsgroup.
HL> Yes, thanks Richard and Peter. We very much appreciate your prompt
HL> and elaborate replies.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard S. Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 2:25 PM
To: felix-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Bundle plugin: Importing packages from non-bundles
Emil Eifrém wrote:
On 12/6/06, Peter Kriens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
How can it NOT generate Import-Package for bundles that are on the
Bundle-Classpath?
Maybe this is a typo, but maybe it's important. I'm not going to
have any *bundles* on the Bundle-Classpath, I'm going to have plain
jars.
(See my commons-logging example.) Does this make a difference?
This means you have unresolved dependencies in your code, which
can give you very nasty problems during deployment and running the
code.
That is like putting out class files that have compile errors.
Hmm, then I'm mistaken about some OSGi fundamentals. I thought the
framework matched my bundle's Import-Packages to other bundles
Export-Packages. In this case, I don't want the framework to find a
bundle that provides the package since the package is provided by
the (plain, non-bundle) embedded jar on the Bundle-Classpath.
That's why I thought the plugin shouldn't add the package to the
Import-Package statement.
Is this an incorrect understanding of how OSGi works?
Your understanding of OSGi is correct.
I think there is a misunderstanding about what you are describing.
You are saying that you don't want imports generated for the same
packages contained inside of embedded JAR files on your bundle class
path, correct? I think Peter thought you meant that you didn't want
to generate imports for the packages required by the packages in your
embedded JAR files. You want the latter, but not the former...you
indicate that the former is probably a bug in the old plugin. Correct?
-> richard
