Janine,
thanks for the info, it's very interesting and I'll pass it on to my vet. Interstitial cystitis is the one with all the symptoms of a full-blown infection and/or crystal presence (bloody urine, frequency, urgency etc) without the clear presence of a cause for those symptoms and is usually exacerbated by stress. I supplement their food with glucosamine/chondroitin, L-glutamine and prozyme - after the last bout, we doubled the dose of the g/c. The Prozyme is for both of them and I started the L-glutamine a few years ago because Bandit's intestinal walls showed as thickened during an ultrasound and it won't hurt Smoky and they both end up with the g/c because it won't hurt either of them either and just might help. Have you tasted the SE? I'm just wondering about how he would react to yet another foreign substance in his food. And you start the twice a day dosing when the symptoms show up? What do you do for pain control?
And yes Smoky is very sensitive and we believe that stress is a major contributing factor. We are going to do baseline testing and depending on how he's doing then (he's doing great now, but I've been home for 2 weeks) we'll put him on amitriptyline for the anxiety. Please feel free to contact me off-list as I would love to be able to have a source who has direct experience with feline IC - I know some humans who've dealt with it personally and I actually have a semi-retired vet school professor (histology) friend who is working on research on IC.
What I found interesting about the struvite dissolving food, the s/d, is that initially, Smoky LOVED it, but into the 2nd week, he was.... less enamored of it and wouldn't eat his full serving or even close to his full serving. It's as if it tasted great when it's what his body needed, but wasn't nearly as appealing once the crystals were gone.
Heh, at least he lost a pound during Nov/Dec. Only 2 more! Although, I'm glad he's got some extra padding so he can reduce his appetite while not feeling well without going underweight. It's a struggle to keep Bandit's weight up, even with his appetite! I wish I could borrow his metabolism for a few months.
Thanks again Janine!
janine paton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
thanks for the info, it's very interesting and I'll pass it on to my vet. Interstitial cystitis is the one with all the symptoms of a full-blown infection and/or crystal presence (bloody urine, frequency, urgency etc) without the clear presence of a cause for those symptoms and is usually exacerbated by stress. I supplement their food with glucosamine/chondroitin, L-glutamine and prozyme - after the last bout, we doubled the dose of the g/c. The Prozyme is for both of them and I started the L-glutamine a few years ago because Bandit's intestinal walls showed as thickened during an ultrasound and it won't hurt Smoky and they both end up with the g/c because it won't hurt either of them either and just might help. Have you tasted the SE? I'm just wondering about how he would react to yet another foreign substance in his food. And you start the twice a day dosing when the symptoms show up? What do you do for pain control?
And yes Smoky is very sensitive and we believe that stress is a major contributing factor. We are going to do baseline testing and depending on how he's doing then (he's doing great now, but I've been home for 2 weeks) we'll put him on amitriptyline for the anxiety. Please feel free to contact me off-list as I would love to be able to have a source who has direct experience with feline IC - I know some humans who've dealt with it personally and I actually have a semi-retired vet school professor (histology) friend who is working on research on IC.
What I found interesting about the struvite dissolving food, the s/d, is that initially, Smoky LOVED it, but into the 2nd week, he was.... less enamored of it and wouldn't eat his full serving or even close to his full serving. It's as if it tasted great when it's what his body needed, but wasn't nearly as appealing once the crystals were gone.
Heh, at least he lost a pound during Nov/Dec. Only 2 more! Although, I'm glad he's got some extra padding so he can reduce his appetite while not feeling well without going underweight. It's a struggle to keep Bandit's weight up, even with his appetite! I wish I could borrow his metabolism for a few months.
Thanks again Janine!
janine paton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Excuse me for coming into this in the middle, so I
hope I'm not repreating anything but if interstitial
cystitis is the one that recurrs, sometimes has blood
in the urine, no bacteria and cyrstals or stone, I use
slippery elm. Natures Way is one compnay that makes
it and it comes in capsules. Here's what I do -
About 1/4 cup hot water, mix in about 1/3 capsule
slippery elm. Add about 1 Tablespoon of the SE/water
mixture to canned food am and pm for a couple of
days,a then I back off to once a day for a couple more
days.
Slippery Elm is a classic treatment for soothing
inflammed mucous membranes. It breaks that cycle of
inflammation, irritation, distress which leads to
inflammation, irritation, distress.
I have a can of Waltham's SO that I never used. One
of my cats was returned for peeing outside the box and
he then blocked, so he DID have crystals, which is
obviously very serious, and slippery elm may have
helped, but not completely cured. His vet wanted me
to put him on the SO, since it's neutral, but I didn't
like the ingredients. I put the cat (who'd been
adopted for a year and on Science Diet dry food) on a
raw diet. It's been 2 years, and he's fine.
The canned SO ingredients, besides the mystery
by-products, has water as its first ingredient.
That's good as cats have evolved to get most of their
moisture from their prey, in other words, in their
food. No grain in the ingredients either - that's
interesting to me because cats are obligate carnivores
and do not have any use for, or any way to assimilate,
grains - I'm thinking that this company knows that the
use of grains in cat food throws their PH off, but
hey, grain is cheap, so it's OK in everything else.
Canned SO is preserved with BHA/BHT which is toxic to
cats and all other living things. And the last
ingredient, dl-METHIONINE, is an amino acid that is
naturally ocurring in raw meat, which is nature's
"neutral cat food".
But I've had 5 or 6 cats with that cystitis that comes
from anxiety, and that's what I use the slippery elm
for.
Winn Feline Foundation talks about that kind of
cystitis. And catnutrition.org explains the dry
food/grain thing very well, has a great recipe for raw
food, lists decent canned food and very helpful links
and references.
My cats were on a raw diet for 7 or 8 yrs, but I have
too many now and don't have the energy to do it
anymore. They're on Wellness canned (not dry!) now
and my cat who blocked is still fine. Not that I
think Wellness is perfect, but better than a lot.
I get hot about this subject, but I feel so sorry for
some of these cats who go through all that stuff
because of IMO big business and marketing.
Janine
--- Barb Moermond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've had Smoky on the s/o food that normalizes urine
> pH since his first episode a year ago. The 2nd bout
> was the week of Thanksgiving, the 3rd, with struvite
> and bacteria, was Dec 8th and the 4th was on the
> 22nd while he was still on treatment for the
> crystals and bacteria from the previous bout. With
> this last one, the crystals were gone and there was
> no bacteria at all, yet all the same damn symptoms.
> I feel so bad for him during these flare-ups because
> he's utterly miserable. The s/d food cleared up the
> crystals very quickly and we're back to the s/o
> food.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the raw diet is
> supposed to help with cystitis and struvite
> crystals. I am about to try it with Lucy for
> chronic loose stools, and am thinking of trying it
> with Patches after her surgery (knock on wood) for
> her urinary tract problems.
> Michelle
>
> In a message dated 1/7/2006 3:45:55 P.M. Eastern
> Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> It always amazes me that more vets don't provide
> good pain control for cats. The only narcotic
> that I know of close to that name is buprenex,
> but it's delivered orally and is good for 8 ish
> hours. Since the week of Thanksgiving, Smoky has
> had 3 flare-ups of cystitis, only one of which
> showed struvite and bacteria, the other two,
> interstitial. hmph. Anyway, one of the standard
> things we do for him is to give him a fentanyl patch
> to help with the pain as well as keeping him
> dosed with the anti-spasmotic acepromazine. The
> advantage of the patch is that it provides 24/7 pain
> control and does not wear off, which the oral
> meds do.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito
>
> "My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should
> impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases
> him, and making me smile."
> - Anonymous
> __________________________________________________
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Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito
"My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile."
- Anonymous
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