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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Winstrol (Ardy Robertson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 17 May 2016 22:41:59 -0500
From: "Ardy Robertson" To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Winstrol
Message-ID: <016301d1b0b7$3c75c570$b5615050$@centurytel.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Bob,
After having just gone through this with my Tigger, I wholeheartedly
agree with the treatment options Amani is outlining. And better to get
started very very soon!
Ardy
-----Original Message-----
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
Of Amani Oakley
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 7:51 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Winstrol
Hi Bob
As I am not sure exactly what is wrong with your little boy's eye, I
can only suggest a more general approach. I have had good results with
rinsing a cat's eyes with daily contact lens solution. The solution is
mostly just saline but it usually contains very small amounts of
disinfectants so as to disinfect contact lenses but is safe to put
into your eye. I will rinse a cat's eyes with the contact lens
solution multiple times a day if I can. This often helps to soothe the
eye and address some infections. You can alternate this with the
antibiotic/steroid cream you were provided.
If it is burst capillaries, then it may be that his platelet count is
low and there may be some bleeding. The cortisone in the eye cream may
help reduce any inflammation and that may help.
Good idea to get blood work done and get a baseline, and at the risk
of sounding like endless looped recording, after that, I would try the
Winstrol/Doxycycline treatment, along with Prednisone if the results
are not all within reference ranges. Be sure to ask for a reticulocyte
count to be done, which will help determine if any anemia you may find
is regenerative or non-regenerative.
At the VERY least, keep them both on Doxycycline, which interferes
with viral reproduction and can hopefully slow down or stop the
advancement of the FeLV virus.
Amani
-----Original Message-----
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
Of ROBERT CHAPEL
Sent: May-16-16 2:30 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Winstrol
I'm new to the list and trying to catch up with some of the
threads...particularly with regard to Winstrol/Doxy combination...
Are any of you actually using this combination currently??... If so,
are you administering it Sub Q, IM or orally?? Also wondering if the
pushback from vets with regard to prescribing it has to do with the
fact that it is one of the more popular anabolics used by body
builders and athletes....??
Also...... anyone have any information re: Eye Problems in FeLV+
Kitties ( other than the frequently occurring sequlae to Herpes Virus
infection).... I recently adopted 2 FeLV+ youngsters ( 7 and 9
months) from the shelter where I volunteer ( couldn't stand the idea
of their living their lives in isolation in a 3x3 enclosure).. I bit
off a LOT more than I anticipated as one has not been fully well since
the day I brought him home but, until recently, he was eating Heartily
and playing mightily despite a chronic URI.... Last week he developed
some cloudiness in his L eye lenses and what appear to be burst
capillaries.... The Vet ( I allowed the shelter to pay for this
particular visit as I will go broke if I bring him as often as I might
be inclined.... the cats are uninsurable by all the pet insurance
companies I contacted).... that vet offered little in the way of
DX...just said " sometimes this happens to FeLV+ cats and prescribed
Triple Antibiotic Ocular Ointment wi
th Cortisone and Amoxi 2x daily ( running 103.2 temp)..... Frankly I
think the guy hardly even looked at my guy and I am going to have to
take him elsewhere on my own dime again to get a real DX and Tx
suggestions.( if I go on the shelters dime he is presented as a foster
and only the shelter are privy to detailed explanations and even then
very little as they get a very discounted rate).... This is my first
experience with FeLV and I have been reading vocaciously.... I am
not one who is going to employ heroic measures to keep my guys alive
unless they won't cause ANY discomfort to them... I'm already
providing them a much better life than they might have had and a LOT
more love and attention than they ever would have known.....
Still.... his eye looks " angry " and I have no way to tell if it is
causing him pain...... Making an appt. to have blood work done to
get a baseline on his HCT,WBC's and Platelets.... Gums appear to still
be red and his paw pads have not gotten lighter so I am hopeful that
he is not severely anemic.... But have NO idea what might have caused
the blood in his eye..... also there is some clear discharge which I
wipe away several times during the day....... Any thoughts
welcome...
Bob
Warwick NY
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 01:00 PM, felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org
wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Amani thoughts for Winstrol (dlg...@windstream.net)
2. Re: Kokonut Felv+ (dlg...@windstream.net)
3. Re: Cat Sanctuary (dlg...@windstream.net)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 10:55:23 -0500
From: To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Amani thoughts for Winstrol
Message-ID: <20160516115523.U40WC.1807.root@pamxwww03-z01>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
GOOD VET!
---- Rachel Dagner wrote:
When I brought Tucker home from work he had an infection on his leg
and I took him to get treated, he had a chip so we found out he
didn't need shots for six months. When I took him for shots she me
if I wanted the felv vaccine because I used to let him go outside
too.
We tested him first and it came back positive :(. She told me he
could live three months or a long normal life there was just no
telling. She never even said the word euthanize.
Sent from my iPhone
On May 15, 2016, at 5:45 PM, wrote:
I really feel blessed because my vet said 2 choices, euthansia or
keep Annie, treat her and hope. I would have walked out the door
and never returned if he only had one solution. Find another vet.
---- Ardy Robertson wrote:
Hello,
If I can jump in on the website idea, I believe that would help
people, especially people like me who had no experience with FeLV.
Suddenly you are told one of your kitties has FeLV virus, and you
are being told there are no options other than euthanasia. My vets
even wanted me to go home and get my other two cats and bring them
in that day for euthanizing! I said ?no?! If there was a website
that sort of listed a protocol for treating the FeLV crises, that
would be great! One of our vets then offered Interferon and while I
was placing my hopes on that treatment, believing that the vets
wanted Tigger to live and pull out of the crisis he was in,
valuable time was slipping away and Tigg?s blood counts were taking
a dive.
They didn?t really explain anything about the blood test results.
I basically had to learn everything from reading online. For
instance I did not know that stress can bring on a crisis. We had
brought a stray into our house, and she was running up behi
nd Tigger and biting him hard. His stress from that was high. I
also learned from reading online that while the FeLV virus spreads to
other cats, it is hardly ever spread to a cat over 11 months of age
because their immune system can usually defend them from it. That is
also how I found this group online.
It was when Amani explained that Winstrol has been shown to turn
the bone marrow back on to producing blood cells, that I decided to
take a chance on it. Then much more time was lost trying to find a
way to get Winstrol, also known as Stanozolol. I found a source in
Canada, but they were not able to ship into the US. I live in
Wisconsin, so I had to find a source in the US. Again, as a
novice, I did not have the information I needed to make any
meaningful decisions. I happen to be computer-literate so I was
able to do the searching for ways to get Winstrol etc., I shudder
to think what a loving cat owner who just doesn?t happen to be able
to find things online easily, would do! So the need for information
is critical??both for cat owners, and eventually to change the
minds of the veterinary community! I hope one day, they will
actually SUGGEST it to cat parents.
If a website could ever become a reality, I would gladly share
Tigger?s treatment details, along with his blood test results. Even
though we eventually lost him, I feel I was given some additional
time with him ? and it was good quality time with him feeling very
good, and playful most of the time. I also feel he may have pulled
through this particular crisis if I had started this treatment
regime as soon as I knew he was FeLV positive. I could be wrong,
but I think the FeLV virus sometimes sits dormant in the cat,
waiting for some period of stress in the cat?s life, and then it
pops up and attacks in varying ways. If the owner is able to get
the cat through that particular crisis, then I think it sometimes
backs off again, possibly for very long periods, especially if the
cat?s stress levels can be kept low.
Thank you,
Ardy
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On
Behalf Of Rachel Dagner
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 10:34 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Amani thoughts for Winstrol
I have googled you, you are the only one on here that I can put a
face to a name! Can we post pictures when we send messages?
Yes, not all lawyers are bad. Lol I am glad you do something you
believe in and that is fulfilling and helps people. Probably makes
all of the hours worth it. That and you love kitties and help
people on here with theirs when you have so little time tells me
you are a wonderful person with a huge heart and a beautiful soul.
A web site would be awesome, somewhere to send people for
information instead of having to start over completely with a new
person. I know there are places where you can do free websites. I
have no idea how to do one. But I am good at researching and
figuring things out, so it's something we could look at.
Sent from my iPhone
On May 14, 2016, at 1:42 PM, Amani Oakley > wrote:
Hi Rachel
I AM working today. I got up late since in fact, I was working
until about 4:30 a.m. That?s one thing about working for myself
(with just my husband as my partner). There is only this single
perk I have and that is that I don?t get up early since I generally
work all night.
I figure since I?m the boss, I don?t have to justify my hours to
anyone else! Of course, if I have to go to court for motions or
trials, then I have to get up early like the rest of the world, but
frankly, when I am in court, I generally don?t go to bed at all.
Fun, eh? And to think that one of the reasons I left the field of
Medical Laboratory Technology and decided to be a lawyer was that I
hated having to do midnight shifts. Now, it?s not a ?shift?. I?m
just up ALL night and work all day TOO.
Rachel, what I would love to do is have someone way smarter than me
when it comes to websites, develop a website where we can collect
the information about Winstrol. It is absolutely essential for us
to collect credible objective scientific information if we are
going to convince the vets to stop their ridiculous crusade against
Winstrol.
At worst, the drug may end up not being very effective in a
particular case, but it isn?t a demon drug to be avoided at all
costs, and frankly, I suspect that starting the Winstrol sooner
would likely give the best outcome. I think, generally speaking,
that when Winstrol is finally used, the cat is in pretty bad shape,
all else has failed, and we are asking for a miracle. I have a lot
of faith in Winstrol, but I know full well it doesn?t always work.
However, I have used it and gotten amazing results in circumstances
where the vets have told me that there is nothing they have to
offer, and nothing will work. So why not try the Winstrol? I
simply don?t get the reluctance.
I would love to get Winstrol for everyone and I am trying to keep
track of anyone who lets me know they have used it and how they
obtained it. Unfortunately, often people will not respond with that
information when I ask. Perhaps they suddenly wonder if I am a fed,
posing as a cat-lover to trap unwary online folks, looking to save
their babies. And I wouldn?t want to expose my vet to criticism
from colleagues. I think she is less of a skeptic than most,
because I let her know what I have seen, but she came in mid-way
during my ordeal with Zander. She wasn?t the first vet who
diagnosed him and she never saw how bad he was because by then, I
was at the ER clinic. However, she allowed me to try various
medications regimes, and allowed me to take the weekly blood work
while I assessed the different treatment modalities to determine
what was working and what wasn?t. She saw Zander improve and was
extremely impressed, but you know, once he recovered from what was
deemed to be a
death sentence, and after there was some daylight between the crisis
and his current excellent condition, vets started to suggest to me
that maybe it wasn?t FeLV after all. REALLY frustrating. There is no
way to convince someone who insists on not being convinced ? even
with weekly lab results in hand and before and after lab results.
Anyway, all that to say that if push comes to shove, I think my vet
believes that the Winstrol saved Zander, but if confronted by other
vets, I am sure she would temper her comments so she doesn?t appear
foolish and out of step to them.
Ardy was generous with her information about where she was able to
obtain the Winstrol and shared it with everyone, and it seems to me
that this may be the most promising route. The trouble isn?t
getting the Winstrol once you have a prescription ? the problem is
getting that prescription from your vet. Once you have that, you
can order the medication online from a compounding pharmacy and
Ardy let us know about the one she used which shipped to her from
another state.
I think each of us who wants to try out the Winstrol, needs to have
a talk with our vets, and explain to them that they are providing
little in the way of options except euthanasia, and a trial of
Winstrol is inexpensive and certainly not painful to the cat, so
rather than simply putting the cat down, why not trying the
Winstrol. Tell them that you understand the risk of liver damage,
and again, given the alternative, you accept and recognize that
risk but it is your understanding that while the liver enzymes
often rise with the use of Winstrol, there is no evidence or
scientific trials linking the use of Winstrol to any lasting liver
damage. In the end, you are in charge. Of course the vet can refuse
to provide the Winstrol and can decide he/she doesn?t want you for
a client, so remain calm and not belligerent if you want to avoid
that outcome. I would like to think that most vets, when faced with
a logical, measured decision to try a specific course of treatment,
would a
ssist even if you don?t have their full support on the chosen
treatment.
I think that once we have some helpful vet names, these also can be
shared so people know where they can go where they will get the
support they need for their FeLV cats. If anyone is situated near
Toronto, Ontario, Canada, I am happy to provide them with my vet?s
name and location. She is very kind, really cares about my cats,
and respects my input very much, so we get along just fine. I have
moved away from where the clinic is located and now have to travel
close to an hour to take my cats there, but I just feel up to going
through the same battle with another vet right now, so I?ll stick
to the ones who have known me for decades and respect my decisions.
Remember too that I used a number of medications with the Winstrol.
I used prednisone, Winstrol, metoclopramide (Zander seemed to have
problems passing stool for a while and research online shows that
FeLV affects the intestinal walls as well ? metoclopramide was VERY
helpful to get the stool moving regularly and I believe without the
stool sitting still in one area of the intestinal tract, it took
away the environment which encouraged the intestinal walls to be
attacked and become inflamed), and Doxycycline. When I was trying
help Ardy with Tigger, her vet wanted Tigger on Convenia and so as
to ?pick our battles?, I told Ardy to accept the Convenia instead
of the Doxycyclne and we would play it by ear. I knew of course
that antibiotics don?t kill viruses, and I couldn?t remember why
Doxycycline was so important. I figured I had used it for covering
for potential secondary infections. However, after seeing some
blasts showing up on the blood work, I reconsidered and rememb
ered that Doxycycline actually works to block RNA synthesis, which
is how the virus reproduces, so while the Winstrol was working to
restore progenitor cells in the bone marrow to get new blood cells
produced, the Doxycycline was blocking the virus from continuing to
reproduce unchecked.
And Rachel ? I am not ?that? kind of a lawyer, so I can?t defend
you from a drug charge, but I do have contacts across the U.S., so
I promise to get you help should you end up in trouble because of
my preaching about Winstrol:). I am a medical malpractice lawyer -
Google me ? I figured I would put my scientific and medical
knowledge to good use when I left the medical field behind.
See ? not all lawyers are bad!
Amani
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On
Behalf Of Rachel Dagner
Sent: May-14-16 7:48 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Amani thoughts
for Winstrol
Good Morning Amani,
I hope you are not working today, lawyers need QOL too!
I have been thinking about Winstrol and how hard it is for people
to get their vets to get on board and how hard it is to find it. So
I was thinking that maybe since you are the go to person for those
of us looking to go this route, you could start a file of those who
have tried it along with blood test results and notes or letters
from vets, along with places we find that make Winstrol. You could
then send the file to people to take with them to their vets. The
more vets that try it and see results the more likely they are to
try it again and share their experience with other vets.
My second option would be that I could become a Winstrol kitty drug
dealer, and if I got caught you could defend me. Then we could
write a book about it.
Option one sounds a little more promising though.
Rachel
Sent from my iPhone
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 11:02:35 -0500
From: To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Kokonut Felv+
Message-ID: <20160516120235.PJPAU.1851.root@pamxwww03-z01>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
RE: stool, I give my guys about 1/4 teaspoon coconut oil every day.
They ask for it. I don't have as much problem with hairballs since
we started this.
---- Amani Oakley wrote:
Olivia
It is a slow process. Once you get a bit of food into Kokonuts, she
will hopefully start feeling better. Keep feeding her small amounts
at multiple times of the day, if you can. Ask the vet to give her
subcutaneous fluids or to show you how to do it at home (t is pretty
easy). She is probably dehydrated as well as not eating well. Good
for you to get the Pedialyte into her - that is exactly what she
needs - electrolytes - but with subcutaneous fluids, there is a much
faster uptake of the fluids, body-wide, then if it is given orally.
See if her stool is coming out regularly. If not, consider asking
the vet for Metoclopromide. As I mentioned in another post, FeLV
often negatively impacts the intestinal tract and causes the stool
to slow down. The Metoclopromide helps to empty the stomach and
increases peristaltic action which moves the stool along and this
makes the cat feel a bit better after a meal.
I strongly suggest the Winstrol if nothing else but to increase
appetite and feeling better. That boost alone will go miles to
helping your cat fight this battle.
Amani
-----Original Message-----
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On
Behalf Of . .
Sent: May-15-16 12:46 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Kokonut Felv+
How long has anyone ever syringe fed a cat . How long will it take a
cat to feel better weeks ,months? Please share thanks Sent from my
iPhone
On May 15, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Rachel Dagner wrote:
Hi Olivia,
So sorry your baby isn't feeling good. Syringe feeding in very
important are you using the ad hills food? I know it's hard to get
a lot of food in and this is high calorie. When I was syringe
feeding Tucker I took him to get fluids under the skin a couple of
times and my vet only charges $14 to do it. My thoughts are that
vets treat the symptoms but sometimes forget that we also need to
treat the underlying problems. Which in our case is felv which
causes a poor immune system. I would say find something to boost
the immune system as well. Since you are syringing you can just add
supplements right to the food. I syringe Tucker a tiny bit of food
twice everyday mixed with his supplements. My suggestion would be
if cost is an issue to try something like Life Gold immunity. It
equals out to about $10 a month, if you have deeper pockets I would
do Vitality Science Advanced Immune Support, both of these
companies offer a ninety day money back guarantee. You can do some
research on products look and the ingredients and find something
you feel comfortable with. I would give supplements not only while
sick but as a maintenance to keep my kitties immune system strong,
and fighting. I hope kokonut feels better soon and starts eating on
her own. Keep us posted!
Sent from my iPhone
On May 14, 2016, at 9:56 PM, wrote:
Try baby food, just make sure it has no onion or garlic in it.
---- Miss Olivia Valencia wrote:
My cat is Kokonut 1/yo. She is Felv+. She got ill the other day,
she had a fever of 105. took her to vet . The vet gave her
metacam,doxycycline & depo medrol Her fever has come down a
little. But she hasn't been eating & just been laying in the same
spot for the last couple of days. My sister has been syringe
feeding & hydrating her & also giving her some pedialyte. Any
other recommendations-For food & staying hydrating? frown
emoticon has anybody else experienced this? whats to be expected?
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 11:15:20 -0500
From: To: Amy , felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cat Sanctuary
Message-ID: <20160516121520.SLLRS.1918.root@pamxwww03-z01>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
AND ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS GET PEOPLE TO NEUTER AND SPAY, THEN THERE
WOULD BE NO STRAYS.
---- Amy wrote:
Lorrie,
That sounds amazing! I do cat rescue in Rochester, NY and we are a
no-kill rescue so when we get in leuk pos kitties, we do our best to
find places for them to go. We don't euthanize like so many of the
groups do. I have positives of my own but I am at capacity in my
home. We can keep the FIV positives at our building but not the leuk
positives because we are cage free and all of our rooms are full
with non-contagious cats. We don't get them in often but am I able
to contact you to see if you are able to help if we do get a leuk
pos?
We always hold them at least 30 days to restest and often 60 or 90
days and we run both tests, the ELISA and the IFA to make sure they
aren't going to fight it off first. So far, most of the ones we have
taken in have converted after some time. We are always looking for
more options on the rare occasion we do get one in that remains
positive and tests positive on both the ELISA and IFA. Thanks for
helping these kitties!!!!
Let me know!Thanks Amy
From: Lorrie To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday,
May 15, 2016 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cat Sanctuary
? ? Lorrie,
? ? Do you have pictures?? I would love to see what you've done!
? ? Kat (Mew Jersey)
Hi Kat, I was born in Morristown, "Mew" Jersey.
I only have photos of the outside of my sanctuary and the grassy lot
next door where I have a small, heated, building for ferals, and a
big shade tree. I don't think they let us send photos to the group,
but if you want to see it I can send it to you. However, outside you
just see a two story brick building not the inside.
-
It's really difficult to take photos of the inside because I can't
get back far enough in each room to really show what I've done.
-
My cat sanctuary is two stories and a basement.? Downstairs are 5
rooms, including two rooms with wire doors for introduction or
isolation. My live-in caretaker has her own bedroom, a large
kitchen, full bathroom and a half bath.? The cats have access to
every room and my caretaker lets them sleep with her. She spoils
them rotten.
They (cats & caretaker) all have a couch, chairs, and kitty kondos.
There is a glass front door and window perches so they can look
outside.
The cats are NOT in cages, they have the run of the downstairs and
upstairs rooms.? The older cats are downstairs, and adoptable young
cats and kittens are upstairs which is also designed just for them.
Upstairs are 4 large kitty kondos, 2 people chairs, many cozy cat
beds, and a wall-walk with two tunnels that goes all around the
walls. There are 4 rooms upstairs, and a laundry room.
Lorrie
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