This double-posted message is blank for me. -----Original Message----- >From: ROBERT CHAPEL <[email protected]> >Sent: Oct 4, 2016 4:23 AM >To: [email protected] >Cc: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Removing an Eye.... > > > > > On Tue, Oct 04, 2016 at 03:29 AM, [email protected] >wrote: > > > Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [email protected] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [email protected] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: FW: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol >> (Ardy Robertson) >> 2. Re: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol >> ([email protected]) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 21:57:29 -0500 >> From: "Ardy Robertson" To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Continued >> Improvement for Bogey on >> Stanzolol >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Well I live in Osseo, Wisconsin ? and the Osseo Vet Clinic prescribed >> it for me. They did not have a source for it, but I located one online >> for them, and the vet who is no longer there, would fill in a form >> online and order it, then I paid for it with a credit card and it >> shipped to my house with one refill. After that refill, the vet had to >> request it online again. The compounding pharmacy I found online was >> wonderful ? they are called Diamond Back Drugs. I believe it is >> www.diamondbackdrugs.com and they are physically located in Arizona. >> >> >> The Animal Wellness Center in Mondovi, Wisconsin SAID they would get >> it for me, only after I begged for it for weeks, but then they never >> quite got around to finding a source for it, and when I gave them the >> name of the Diamond Back Drug Company, they never quite got around to >> ordering it. So I changed to the Osseo Vet Clinic. >> >> >> I do believe the other vets at the Osseo Vet Clinic would prescribe it >> for me because they were all aware Tigger was ?using? :) and they knew >> that he made fantastic progress while on it. I just didn?t get him >> started on it earlier enough and I did not know to give him >> Doxycycline until it was too late. I think I would demand Doxycycline >> for him if I had it to do over again because I believe Amani is >> probably the most knowledgeable about this dreadful disease that the >> vets have no answer for other than euthanization. >> >> >> That?s my 2 cents worth. >> >> Ardy >> >> >> >> From: Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >> Of Amy Glunt >> Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2016 9:07 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on >> Stanzolol >> >> >> I think it would be really great if we could all compile a list of >> vets that prescribe the stanzolol, perhaps by state. That would be a >> really great resource for people who are looking for this information. >> I'm calling around my city tomorrow to see if I can find any vets who >> will prescribe it for my cat. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> On Oct 1, 2016, at 9:08 PM, Sherri Godschalk > wrote: >> >> Had to shorten this?hope it doesn?t post twice as it went to the >> moderator because of size. >> >> >> Good to know about the liver test. I will NOT mention it to my vet. >> >> Since this whole process has started for Bogey and I, I often wonder >> what logic is used when saying that the side affects from taking the >> Stanzolol are liver issues, but the side effect of not taking it, is >> death. I know for me personally, if I was sick and facing this >> decision, I know what I would do without question. Believe it or not, >> I read that exact paper you are describing when Bogey was first >> prescribed the Stanzolol. (Google search) I felt pretty defeated >> (although many of the terms were over my head) after reading it. I did >> not notice the dosages though. Doesn?t sound like a very scientific >> study does it. Maybe we should start our own. Post the names of vets >> who are willing to prescribe it as well as the results each person has >> with their pet that is taking it. There again, I am way out in front >> of myself here because Bogey is not thriving but she did just run into >> the room with a Q-tip in her mouth (her favorite toy) and 60 days ago >> she could barely walk into the r >> oom without laying down. She has also steadily gained weight. Over a >> pound which doesn?t sound like much but she barely weighed 5 pounds to >> begin with. Life is still happening here. >> >> >> It does seem like there is secrecy surrounding vets prescribing >> Stanzolol. Almost like I am scoring some heroin or something. (no I am >> not a drug user) From what you found with your other cat, clearly this >> could be a positive choice for inoperable tumors, and or life >> extending treatment for senior pets. At any rate, I feel luckier each >> day that my current vet values the life of my cat enough to try to >> save her. It sounds like your vet is terrific and that you have a >> great, long relationship with them. I hope to have the same, one day. >> >> >> Sherri >> >> >> From: Felvtalk > on behalf of Amani Oakley > >> Reply-To: > >> Date: Friday, September 30, 2016 at 8:29 PM >> To: "[email protected] " > >> Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on >> Stanzolol >> >> >> Sherri >> >> >> I wouldn?t recommend you run the liver enzymes. If they rise (and they >> often do) it will cause your vet to try to get you to stop the >> Winstrol. >> >> >> I was running a full biochemistry profile along with the full >> haematology profile on Zander. So tests like ALP, AST, ALT, TBili and >> DBili are indicators of liver function. With Zander, they rose >> sharply, but there was simply no other option but to continue. I had >> done all my research, tried out the two most likely new and promising >> therapies (LTCI and Interferon) and they were not at all (I mean AT >> ALL) helpful. So, discontinuing the Winstrol meant certain death for >> Zander. I am so glad I ignored the liver enzymes. They settled down on >> their own, and Zander never had any liver problems after almost a FULL >> YEAR on Winstrol. >> >> >> I had another cat with a nasal sarcoma, who was 16 when she got the >> sarcoma and a tiny skinny thing. I put her on Winstrol because again, >> there were no really good options. Again, I had a great response, with >> it upping her appetite dramatically, and keeping the sarcoma in a >> shrunken state with far less discharge and swelling than prior to the >> administration of the Winstrol. Her liver enzymes went through the >> roof and the vet (a very good friend of mine who is the head of vet >> oncology and a brilliant man) knowing how I feel about Winstrol, just >> asked if I would agree to discontinue the Winstrol to see if the liver >> enzymes would reduce. (Very gently. He knew he was on thin ice.) I >> did, for a few weeks, then put her back on. She lived to age 19 with >> that sarcoma, because the Winstrol kept her eating, and happy and >> strong. >> >> >> One of the smart folks on this chatline, recently sent me what was >> likely the stupid vet research publication which likely started the >> whole ?liver? scare. Look it up because I cannot attach it to this >> email as it will not go through. The title is, ?Hepatotoxicity of >> stanozolol in cats? by Kenneth R. Harkin, et. al. in JAVMA, Vol. 217, >> No. 5, September 1, 2000. Bizarrely, in this study, the authors put >> the cats on a ?loading dose? of 25 mg intramuscularly, then 2 mg a day >> by mouth, every 12 hours. So, just for starters, you see that for some >> reason, they started the cats on TEN TIMES the normal dose, and them >> kept them on at least TWO TIMES the normal dosefor the rest of the >> study. Even then, here are some telltale pieces of information: >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Felvtalk mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 2:29:17 -0500 >> From: To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on >> Stanzolol >> Message-ID: <20161004032917.EGY3O.934.root@pamxwww04-z01> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> With some vets we have to get aggressive for the sake of our babies. >> Either that or change vets. My problem is that being in a small town, >> we don't have may vets to choose from. My current vet seems more >> agreeable than the last one plus she is not always out on a farm call >> when I need her. >> >> >> ---- Ardy Robertson wrote: >>> Hi Sherri - when you go in again why don't you just ask the vet to >>> humor you >>> and let you try doxycycline just so that you can feel like you tried >>> everything for Bogey. Maybe he will give in if you keep asking. When >>> I >>> changed vets during Tigger's treatment I told them flat out that I >>> was going >>> to be a steady customer for a while and I wanted all 4 of the vets to >>> be >>> aware of Tigger's condition and to please give me what I needed. I >>> told them >>> that Amani was helping me and basically that I wanted to call the >>> shots and >>> they were okay with it (to my surprise). I am normally a very >>> mild-mannered >>> person but when it came to my Tigger Baby's life, I was bold!! Thank >>> you >>> again Amani - we almost succeeded with Tigger, and if I had gotten >>> the >>> Winstrol sooner I think we would have :) >>> >>> >>> Ardy >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >>> Of >>> Sherri Godschalk >>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 6:54 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on >>> Stanzolol >>> >>> >>> Oh my gosh Amani! What an incredible story. The chances that he could >>> survive from where he was. I cannot imagine the joy you felt when you >>> saw >>> his gums were pink. What a long road for the both of you. Says so >>> much about >>> you. So your vet knew of the treatment but was afraid of it. >>> Hopefully the >>> next FELV cat they saw in their office, they remembered the success >>> that you >>> experienced and prescribed accordingly. How lucky that you had the >>> knowledge >>> you did, the confidence to respectfully challenge the ones telling >>> you there >>> was no hope. Zander was one lucky kitty. >>> >>> >>> I can't say that I don't worry about the side effects of the drugs >>> Bogey is >>> taking. But I understand that he has to survive THIS first. I am not >>> so sure >>> that my vet has anything against using Doxycicline as much as he just >>> doesn't see a need for it yet. What test was run on Zander to check >>> the >>> liver enzymes you mentioned? >>> >>> >>> Getting the message out about this drug and it's positive response in >>> FELV >>> anemic cats is something I truly hope happens. When my vet gave me >>> this pill >>> for Bogey, I had no idea what it was. He told me it was a steroid >>> that body >>> builders take. I ran home, gave the cat the pill, sat down at my >>> computer >>> and Googled "Felv Stanzolol" and this site came up. I have written a >>> bit >>> about my experience thus far here, and on a Facebook page for FIV and >>> FELV >>> cats. But it makes me feel bad for the people that read it and get >>> hopeful, >>> go to their vets and get the "doesn't help", "bad for livers" or just >>> "No". >>> I know it is very early in Bogey's treatment and she may not continue >>> to get >>> better with just what she is taking. But I am glad for every moment >>> that I >>> have with her. I hope I have hundreds and thousands more. >>> >>> >>> Thanks for sharing the story about Zander. Amazing. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Felvtalk > >>> Reply-To: >>>> >>> Date: Friday, September 30, 2016 at 6:11 PM >>> To: "[email protected] " >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on >>> Stanzolol >>> >>> >>> Yes, Sherri. There's no question this is a frustrating, devastating >>> disease, >>> made far far worse by vets lacking in knowledge, and committed to >>> just >>> putting down FeLV cats. Sherri, Zander's haematocrit was actually >>> down to 5 >>> initially, and he had to be placed in an oxygen tent because his >>> haemoglobin >>> was so low his body would have had trouble transporting oxygen to the >>> cells >>> in his body. I gave him blood transfusions initially, but could see >>> that >>> they were only temporary stopgaps, and after the second one, he had a >>> reaction, so I was told he couldn't have any more transfusions, as >>> the next >>> one would kill him. As a former medical technologist, I knew that to >>> be >>> true. (In Canada, they didn't test for blood type at the time - don't >>> know >>> if they do now.) >>> >>> >>> After trying Zander on a course of Interferon and a course of LTCI >>> (or >>> whatever it is called - I always mix up the letters), I totally by >>> chance, >>> opened up my drawer and rummaged through it in desperation because >>> his >>> haematocrit had dropped from a high of 16 after his second blood >>> transfusion, back down to 10, and I knew I was going to lose him >>> soon. He >>> was on Doxycycline and Prednisone, but it wasn't doing a thing for >>> his cell >>> lines, which were all depressed - with the most critical being the >>> red >>> cells/haematocrit numbers. Imagine my total surprise when, after I >>> gave him >>> some old Winstrol I found in the drawer, I started noticing his ears >>> and >>> gums taking on a pink hue and when I tested him 3 days after starting >>> the >>> Winstrol, the haematocrit had gone up instead of steadily down. >>> >>> >>> My surprise grew, and finally overcame my skepticism (I mean, really, >>> what >>> are the odds that I discovered a cure???) and Zander's results kept >>> slowly >>> but steadily rising for months and months until he was finally out of >>> danger >>> and then into the normal reference range for all his results. >>> >>> >>> Then, after a year, when I told the internal specialist who had very >>> kindly >>> told me there was no hope with this disease, imagine my shock that he >>> KNEW >>> about Winstrol and said that I had gone "old-school" and this has >>> been >>> something they used to use for this disease until "word" spread that >>> the >>> drug could cause liver damage! >>> >>> >>> Frankly, after reading about all the experiences of so many people in >>> this >>> situation, I realize how lucky I am. Because of my background in >>> health >>> care, my very long relationship with my vet clinic (which I would >>> often >>> diagnose things before them and/or I would identify problems they >>> hadn't >>> seen) AND very likely, my prickly personality/refusal to take no for >>> an >>> answer, my vets were good enough to back off and let me do my thing. >>> They >>> recognized that, OBVIOUSLY, they had nothing to offer me if the >>> Winstrol >>> didn't work. They faithfully tried the Interferon and the LTCI at my >>> request, and ran the weekly bloodwork, and agreed that there were no >>> positive effects. They saw the positive effects with the WInstrol. >>> They >>> tried on a few occasions to talk me into discontinuing or reducing >>> the >>> Winstrol when the liver enzymes increased, but after what Zander had >>> been >>> through - being on the brink of death - I was not open to discussing >>> this >>> option. On a few occasions I would reduce the Winstrol briefly, only >>> to see >>> his haematology drop. I would then hold my breath for a few days or >>> weeks, >>> to let the liver enzymes settle a bit, before getting him back on the >>> WInstrol. However, I don't think any of the vets were prepared to >>> argue with >>> the obvious success. They had seen the unbelievably low haematocrit >>> and red >>> cell count, for themselves. >>> >>> >>> I just don't know how we can get this message across to mainstream >>> vets. >>> This is NOT an evil drug which must be avoided at all costs. I wish I >>> could >>> address a vet convention. If I had LITTLE TIME, I would write a paper >>> and >>> submit it for publication in a vet publication. >>> >>> I get angered when I hear about all the trouble everyone has, getting >>> some >>> Winstrol for their cats, despite the desperate circumstances the cats >>> are >>> in. >>> >>> >>> Sherri, the odd thing for you is that your vet is okay with the >>> Winstrol but >>> not the Doxycycline. Really bizarre! >>> >>> No wonder underground markets flourish. It just shouldn't be this >>> hard to be >>> at least given an opportunity and a bit of hope to save our cats. >>> >>> >>> Amani >>> >>> My " problem" guy... Yogi..... is not progressing much with his >>> Corneal Ulcer and I have found a vet that is willing to remove his >>> eye for a VERY reasonable price ( Hundreds less than the quotes that >>> I have gotten in my area..... I neglected to ask if there was an >>> abbreviated version that might not be as extensive as the full >>> removal of Eyeball and surrounding musculature given the extreme >>> difference in price.... > >Any of you who has had a Cats eye removed have any recollection of what >you might have paid.... I don't want to miss the opportunity to get >this done but am shakey about it given his debilitated status( I could >lose him)...at the same time ...the eye does not appear to be improving >much and even if it does improve the odds favor the problems returning ( >if he were not FeLV I would be more inclined to stick it out until the >Ulcer healed.... But I am fearful that I might lose the opportunity to >have it done at a reasonable price if I tryto keep him on the road to >healing the right eye with his current medications*( He's already >developing some sinus complications given the proximity of the eye to >sinus tracts and the need to drain off fluid from the eye.... Anyone >have a recollection of how their cats reacted to surgical removal of an >eye.... eg.. Recovery time.....thanks > > > > > > > > > > >http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >>> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Felvtalk mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Felvtalk Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5 >> *************************************** >> > >_______________________________________________ >Felvtalk mailing list >[email protected] >http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
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