I would hate to have to make this decision. ---- ROBERT CHAPEL <[email protected]> wrote: > Margo:
It is often frustrating posting here because ( perhaps depending on the internet provider, or the type of computer or OS someone is using) a lot of messages post differently ( eg.... ALL of mine come across with a bunch of Question marks in them that I did not put there myself.... NOW my subject lines are double posting AND ( with my most recent question) it appears at the very bottom of the long list of postings and Unconnected to the subect lines ( go to the VERY bottom of the postings and it will look as though I am responding to Amani but actually that is just Amani's sign off on the previous post..... Sorry.... I was soliciting information on people's experiences with having eyes removed from their ill cats..... I am paining over whether to do this as my boy looks like he " might" be improving a bit but he has " surprised me many times before looking like he's improving only to go south the next day..... I'm getting a price I can afford on the operation as a bit of a favor and am loathe to lose the price should she decide otherwise if I put it off to a later date...... wondering also ( given that the price is hundreds less than other quotes) if perhaps there are " lesser" operations where they , perhaps, only remove part of the eye without the underlying musculature for eg) ???? Bob Warwick, NY On Tue, Oct 04, 2016 at 01:00 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Removing an Eye.... (Margo) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 07:21:02 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > From: Margo To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Removing an Eye.... > Message-ID: > > <30487436.1475580063291.javamail....@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > This double-posted message is blank for me. > > -----Original Message----- >> From: ROBERT CHAPEL Sent: Oct 4, 2016 4:23 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Cc: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Removing an Eye.... >> >> >> ? >> ? >> ?On Tue, Oct 04, 2016 at 03:29 AM, >> [email protected] wrote: >> ? >> ?> Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to >>> [email protected] >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> >>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >>> >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> [email protected] >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> [email protected] >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: FW: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol >>> (Ardy Robertson) >>> 2. Re: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol >>> ([email protected]) >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 21:57:29 -0500 >>> From: "Ardy Robertson" To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Continued >>> Improvement for Bogey on >>> Stanzolol >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >>> Well I live in Osseo, Wisconsin ? and the Osseo Vet Clinic >>> prescribed it for me. They did not have a source for it, but I >>> located one online for them, and the vet who is no longer there, >>> would fill in a form online and order it, then I paid for it with a >>> credit card and it shipped to my house with one refill. After that >>> refill, the vet had to request it online again. The compounding >>> pharmacy I found online was wonderful ? they are called Diamond Back >>> Drugs. I believe it is www.diamondbackdrugs.com and they are >>> physically located in Arizona. >>> >>> >>> The Animal Wellness Center in Mondovi, Wisconsin SAID they would get >>> it for me, only after I begged for it for weeks, but then they never >>> quite got around to finding a source for it, and when I gave them >>> the name of the Diamond Back Drug Company, they never quite got >>> around to ordering it. So I changed to the Osseo Vet Clinic. >>> >>> >>> I do believe the other vets at the Osseo Vet Clinic would prescribe >>> it for me because they were all aware Tigger was ?using? :) and they >>> knew that he made fantastic progress while on it. I just didn?t get >>> him started on it earlier enough and I did not know to give him >>> Doxycycline until it was too late. I think I would demand >>> Doxycycline for him if I had it to do over again because I believe >>> Amani is probably the most knowledgeable about this dreadful disease >>> that the vets have no answer for other than euthanization. >>> >>> >>> That?s my 2 cents worth. >>> >>> Ardy >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] On >>> Behalf Of Amy Glunt >>> Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2016 9:07 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on >>> Stanzolol >>> >>> >>> I think it would be really great if we could all compile a list of >>> vets that prescribe the stanzolol, perhaps by state. That would be a >>> really great resource for people who are looking for this >>> information. I'm calling around my city tomorrow to see if I can >>> find any vets who will prescribe it for my cat. >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> >>> On Oct 1, 2016, at 9:08 PM, Sherri Godschalk > wrote: >>> >>> Had to shorten this?hope it doesn?t post twice as it went to the >>> moderator because of size. >>> >>> >>> Good to know about the liver test. I will NOT mention it to my vet. >>> >>> Since this whole process has started for Bogey and I, I often wonder >>> what logic is used when saying that the side affects from taking the >>> Stanzolol are liver issues, but the side effect of not taking it, is >>> death. I know for me personally, if I was sick and facing this >>> decision, I know what I would do without question. Believe it or >>> not, I read that exact paper you are describing when Bogey was first >>> prescribed the Stanzolol. (Google search) I felt pretty defeated >>> (although many of the terms were over my head) after reading it. I >>> did not notice the dosages though. Doesn?t sound like a very >>> scientific study does it. Maybe we should start our own. Post the >>> names of vets who are willing to prescribe it as well as the results >>> each person has with their pet that is taking it. There again, I am >>> way out in front of myself here because Bogey is not thriving but >>> she did just run into the room with a Q-tip in her mouth (her >>> favorite toy) and 60 days ago she could barely walk into the r >>> oom without laying down. She has also steadily gained weight. Over >>> a pound which doesn?t sound like much but she barely weighed 5 >>> pounds to begin with. Life is still happening here. >>> >>> >>> It does seem like there is secrecy surrounding vets prescribing >>> Stanzolol. Almost like I am scoring some heroin or something. (no I >>> am not a drug user) From what you found with your other cat, clearly >>> this could be a positive choice for inoperable tumors, and or life >>> extending treatment for senior pets. At any rate, I feel luckier >>> each day that my current vet values the life of my cat enough to try >>> to save her. It sounds like your vet is terrific and that you have a >>> great, long relationship with them. I hope to have the same, one >>> day. >>> >>> >>> Sherri >>> >>> >>> From: Felvtalk > on behalf of Amani Oakley > >>> Reply-To: > >>> Date: Friday, September 30, 2016 at 8:29 PM >>> To: "[email protected] " > >>> Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on >>> Stanzolol >>> >>> >>> Sherri >>> >>> >>> I wouldn?t recommend you run the liver enzymes. If they rise (and >>> they often do) it will cause your vet to try to get you to stop the >>> Winstrol. >>> >>> >>> I was running a full biochemistry profile along with the full >>> haematology profile on Zander. So tests like ALP, AST, ALT, TBili >>> and DBili are indicators of liver function. With Zander, they rose >>> sharply, but there was simply no other option but to continue. I had >>> done all my research, tried out the two most likely new and >>> promising therapies (LTCI and Interferon) and they were not at all >>> (I mean AT ALL) helpful. So, discontinuing the Winstrol meant >>> certain death for Zander. I am so glad I ignored the liver enzymes. >>> They settled down on their own, and Zander never had any liver >>> problems after almost a FULL YEAR on Winstrol. >>> >>> >>> I had another cat with a nasal sarcoma, who was 16 when she got the >>> sarcoma and a tiny skinny thing. I put her on Winstrol because >>> again, there were no really good options. Again, I had a great >>> response, with it upping her appetite dramatically, and keeping the >>> sarcoma in a shrunken state with far less discharge and swelling >>> than prior to the administration of the Winstrol. Her liver enzymes >>> went through the roof and the vet (a very good friend of mine who is >>> the head of vet oncology and a brilliant man) knowing how I feel >>> about Winstrol, just asked if I would agree to discontinue the >>> Winstrol to see if the liver enzymes would reduce. (Very gently. He >>> knew he was on thin ice.) I did, for a few weeks, then put her back >>> on. She lived to age 19 with that sarcoma, because the Winstrol kept >>> her eating, and happy and strong. >>> >>> >>> One of the smart folks on this chatline, recently sent me what was >>> likely the stupid vet research publication which likely started the >>> whole ?liver? scare. Look it up because I cannot attach it to this >>> email as it will not go through. The title is, ?Hepatotoxicity of >>> stanozolol in cats? by Kenneth R. Harkin, et. al. in JAVMA, Vol. >>> 217, No. 5, September 1, 2000. Bizarrely, in this study, the authors >>> put the cats on a ?loading dose? of 25 mg intramuscularly, then 2 mg >>> a day by mouth, every 12 hours. So, just for starters, you see that >>> for some reason, they started the cats on TEN TIMES the normal dose, >>> and them kept them on at least TWO TIMES the normal dosefor the rest >>> of the study. Even then, here are some telltale pieces of >>> information: >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Felvtalk mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 2:29:17 -0500 >>> From: To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on >>> Stanzolol >>> Message-ID: <20161004032917.EGY3O.934.root@pamxwww04-z01> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >>> >>> With some vets we have to get aggressive for the sake of our babies. >>> Either that or change vets. My problem is that being in a small >>> town, we don't have may vets to choose from. My current vet seems >>> more agreeable than the last one plus she is not always out on a >>> farm call when I need her. >>> >>> >>> ---- Ardy Robertson wrote: >>>> Hi Sherri - when you go in again why don't you just ask the vet to >>>> humor you >>>> and let you try doxycycline just so that you can feel like you >>>> tried >>>> everything for Bogey. Maybe he will give in if you keep asking. >>>> When I >>>> changed vets during Tigger's treatment I told them flat out that I >>>> was going >>>> to be a steady customer for a while and I wanted all 4 of the vets >>>> to be >>>> aware of Tigger's condition and to please give me what I needed. I >>>> told them >>>> that Amani was helping me and basically that I wanted to call the >>>> shots and >>>> they were okay with it (to my surprise). I am normally a very >>>> mild-mannered >>>> person but when it came to my Tigger Baby's life, I was bold!! >>>> Thank you >>>> again Amani - we almost succeeded with Tigger, and if I had gotten >>>> the >>>> Winstrol sooner I think we would have :) >>>> >>>> >>>> Ardy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] On >>>> Behalf Of >>>> Sherri Godschalk >>>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 6:54 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on >>>> Stanzolol >>>> >>>> >>>> Oh my gosh Amani! What an incredible story. The chances that he >>>> could >>>> survive from where he was. I cannot imagine the joy you felt when >>>> you saw >>>> his gums were pink. What a long road for the both of you. Says so >>>> much about >>>> you. So your vet knew of the treatment but was afraid of it. >>>> Hopefully the >>>> next FELV cat they saw in their office, they remembered the success >>>> that you >>>> experienced and prescribed accordingly. How lucky that you had the >>>> knowledge >>>> you did, the confidence to respectfully challenge the ones telling >>>> you there >>>> was no hope. Zander was one lucky kitty. >>>> >>>> >>>> I can't say that I don't worry about the side effects of the drugs >>>> Bogey is >>>> taking. But I understand that he has to survive THIS first. I am >>>> not so sure >>>> that my vet has anything against using Doxycicline as much as he >>>> just >>>> doesn't see a need for it yet. What test was run on Zander to check >>>> the >>>> liver enzymes you mentioned? >>>> >>>> >>>> Getting the message out about this drug and it's positive response >>>> in FELV >>>> anemic cats is something I truly hope happens. When my vet gave me >>>> this pill >>>> for Bogey, I had no idea what it was. He told me it was a steroid >>>> that body >>>> builders take. I ran home, gave the cat the pill, sat down at my >>>> computer >>>> and Googled "Felv Stanzolol" and this site came up. I have written >>>> a bit >>>> about my experience thus far here, and on a Facebook page for FIV >>>> and FELV >>>> cats. But it makes me feel bad for the people that read it and get >>>> hopeful, >>>> go to their vets and get the "doesn't help", "bad for livers" or >>>> just "No". >>>> I know it is very early in Bogey's treatment and she may not >>>> continue to get >>>> better with just what she is taking. But I am glad for every moment >>>> that I >>>> have with her. I hope I have hundreds and thousands more. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for sharing the story about Zander. Amazing. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Felvtalk > >>>> Reply-To: >>>>> >>>> Date: Friday, September 30, 2016 at 6:11 PM >>>> To: "[email protected] " >>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on >>>> Stanzolol >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, Sherri. There's no question this is a frustrating, devastating >>>> disease, >>>> made far far worse by vets lacking in knowledge, and committed to >>>> just >>>> putting down FeLV cats. Sherri, Zander's haematocrit was actually >>>> down to 5 >>>> initially, and he had to be placed in an oxygen tent because his >>>> haemoglobin >>>> was so low his body would have had trouble transporting oxygen to >>>> the cells >>>> in his body. I gave him blood transfusions initially, but could see >>>> that >>>> they were only temporary stopgaps, and after the second one, he had >>>> a >>>> reaction, so I was told he couldn't have any more transfusions, as >>>> the next >>>> one would kill him. As a former medical technologist, I knew that >>>> to be >>>> true. (In Canada, they didn't test for blood type at the time - >>>> don't know >>>> if they do now.) >>>> >>>> >>>> After trying Zander on a course of Interferon and a course of LTCI >>>> (or >>>> whatever it is called - I always mix up the letters), I totally by >>>> chance, >>>> opened up my drawer and rummaged through it in desperation because >>>> his >>>> haematocrit had dropped from a high of 16 after his second blood >>>> transfusion, back down to 10, and I knew I was going to lose him >>>> soon. He >>>> was on Doxycycline and Prednisone, but it wasn't doing a thing for >>>> his cell >>>> lines, which were all depressed - with the most critical being the >>>> red >>>> cells/haematocrit numbers. Imagine my total surprise when, after I >>>> gave him >>>> some old Winstrol I found in the drawer, I started noticing his >>>> ears and >>>> gums taking on a pink hue and when I tested him 3 days after >>>> starting the >>>> Winstrol, the haematocrit had gone up instead of steadily down. >>>> >>>> >>>> My surprise grew, and finally overcame my skepticism (I mean, >>>> really, what >>>> are the odds that I discovered a cure???) and Zander's results kept >>>> slowly >>>> but steadily rising for months and months until he was finally out >>>> of danger >>>> and then into the normal reference range for all his results. >>>> >>>> >>>> Then, after a year, when I told the internal specialist who had >>>> very kindly >>>> told me there was no hope with this disease, imagine my shock that >>>> he KNEW >>>> about Winstrol and said that I had gone "old-school" and this has >>>> been >>>> something they used to use for this disease until "word" spread >>>> that the >>>> drug could cause liver damage! >>>> >>>> >>>> Frankly, after reading about all the experiences of so many people >>>> in this >>>> situation, I realize how lucky I am. Because of my background in >>>> health >>>> care, my very long relationship with my vet clinic (which I would >>>> often >>>> diagnose things before them and/or I would identify problems they >>>> hadn't >>>> seen) AND very likely, my prickly personality/refusal to take no >>>> for an >>>> answer, my vets were good enough to back off and let me do my >>>> thing. They >>>> recognized that, OBVIOUSLY, they had nothing to offer me if the >>>> Winstrol >>>> didn't work. They faithfully tried the Interferon and the LTCI at >>>> my >>>> request, and ran the weekly bloodwork, and agreed that there were >>>> no >>>> positive effects. They saw the positive effects with the WInstrol. >>>> They >>>> tried on a few occasions to talk me into discontinuing or reducing >>>> the >>>> Winstrol when the liver enzymes increased, but after what Zander >>>> had been >>>> through - being on the brink of death - I was not open to >>>> discussing this >>>> option. On a few occasions I would reduce the Winstrol briefly, >>>> only to see >>>> his haematology drop. I would then hold my breath for a few days or >>>> weeks, >>>> to let the liver enzymes settle a bit, before getting him back on >>>> the >>>> WInstrol. However, I don't think any of the vets were prepared to >>>> argue with >>>> the obvious success. They had seen the unbelievably low haematocrit >>>> and red >>>> cell count, for themselves. >>>> >>>> >>>> I just don't know how we can get this message across to mainstream >>>> vets. >>>> This is NOT an evil drug which must be avoided at all costs. I wish >>>> I could >>>> address a vet convention. If I had LITTLE TIME, I would write a >>>> paper and >>>> submit it for publication in a vet publication. >>>> >>>> I get angered when I hear about all the trouble everyone has, >>>> getting some >>>> Winstrol for their cats, despite the desperate circumstances the >>>> cats are >>>> in. >>>> >>>> >>>> Sherri, the odd thing for you is that your vet is okay with the >>>> Winstrol but >>>> not the Doxycycline. Really bizarre! >>>> >>>> No wonder underground markets flourish. It just shouldn't be this >>>> hard to be >>>> at least given an opportunity and a bit of hope to save our cats. >>>> >>>> >>>> Amani >>>> >>>> My " problem" guy...? Yogi..... is not progressing much with his >>>> Corneal Ulcer and I have found a vet that is willing to remove his >>>> eye for a VERY reasonable price ( Hundreds less than the quotes >>>> that I have gotten in my area.....? I neglected to ask if there was >>>> an abbreviated version that might not be as extensive as the full >>>> removal of Eyeball and surrounding musculature given the extreme >>>> difference in price.... >> >> Any of you who has had a Cats eye removed have any recollection of >> what you might have paid....? I don't want to miss the opportunity to >> get this done but am shakey about it given his debilitated status( I >> could lose him)...at the same time ...the eye does not appear to be >> improving much and even if it does improve the odds favor the >> problems returning ( if he were not FeLV I would be more inclined to >> stick it out until the Ulcer healed.... But I am fearful that I might >> lose the opportunity to have it done at a reasonable price if I tryto >> keep him on the road to healing the right eye with his current >> medications*( He's already developing some sinus complications given >> the proximity of the eye to sinus tracts and the need to drain off >> fluid from the eye....???? Anyone have a recollection of how their >> cats reacted to surgical removal? of an eye....? eg.. Recovery >> time.....thanks >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Subject: Digest Footer >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Felvtalk mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> End of Felvtalk Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5 >>> *************************************** >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Felvtalk mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > [email protected] > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Felvtalk Digest, Vol 30, Issue 7 > *************************************** > _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list [email protected] http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list [email protected] http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
