Ardy...Thank you for the suggestion and the benefit of your experience with DB and Winstrol.... I guess I can understand their reticence if they can't configure their database to produce that information in a few moments ( of course they could be simply disinclined as well which really can't be held too much against them either if someone is not placeing an order : ) Short sighted Yes... but understandable. I am going to be gearing up soon ( I expect) for another Winstrol push as my Yogi is losing weight and temp is rising.... I've spent so much money on the opthalmologist and eye meds I've been holding off on additional blood work but can't wait any longer..... Amani... if you happen to read this can you remind me of the reference ( location) for the study that recommended against Stanazol due to Liver Enzyme abnormalities..... also...did you locate other studies studies recommending against Winstrol for the same reason..... I would like to be able to say with "some" authority that the Liver connection relative to the potential for Hgb Hct Platelet improvement makes it well worth the risk...... More on this later...
On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 10:57 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visithttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.orgor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Availability of Winstrol.... (Ardy Robertson) 2. Re: Bogey's Blood Test Today (Ardy Robertson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 21:51:49 -0600From: "Ardy Robertson" To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Availability of Winstrol....Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"Hi Robert -- I did call Diamond Back Drugs and asked if they could provide the names/contact information for vets who were willing to prescribe Winstrol and they said could not do that because they work with so many vets and clients from all over, and they figured it would be just too much of a task for them. They are very nice to work with though, so possibly if someone called and said for instance, do you know of a vet in the Cincinnati area that I could go to, maybe they would recommend someone. When I needed Winstrol for Tigger I changed vets because the one would not work with me on it. The new vet, I sort of stepped out of my usual passive self and announced rather boldly that this is what I wanted and if they weren't going to work with me, I would not be using them. I was polite but firm, and it worked.Ardy -----Original Message-----From: Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ROBERT CHAPELSent: Monday, December 19, 2016 11:38 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Availability of Winstrol.... Randy...Yes... you DO have a good vet... or a least one that is willing to think outside the litter box.. I am getting VERY frustrated and soon very angry at the unwillingness of my local vets to have anything to do with Winstrol.... I can not comprehend a vet having NO reasonable alternative for a dying animal and STILL being unwilling to prescribe a drug that has shown efficacy with this disease.... If my boy starts to go downhill from anemia and the vet still won't prescribe there is going to be a scene... At the prices now being charged for Veterinary services I expect a LOT MORE than I am getting at this point...Have been looking at International sources for the drug and on various bodybuilding sites but these are mostly B.S and one can not be sure if he is getting the real drug........I recall there being some discussion about contacting Diamond Back and asking for vets that have requested the drug..... Did anyone in he forum ever do this ??? I don't recall..... It's worth a try.... I've used them for other drugs that I have ordered through the shelter where I volunteerOn Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 09:10 PM, [email protected] wrote:Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visithttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.orgor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected]When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..."Today's Topics: 1. Re: FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis (Randy Henke) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 20:10:05 -0600 From: Randy Henke To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"Our vet must be one of the good ones. He approved both Winstrol and Doxycycline even though he has never used them for FELV positive cats. We'll be adding those onto Curly's Prednisone as soon as we get them. So far she is hanging in there. She only eats Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers (about a small can every other day) but her weight is holding around 7 pounds. About a half pound below her best weight before she got sick. She still gets up to get drinks of water and use the litter box and she is still grooming herself. She wants very little social interaction which is not like her at all and she has very little energy, preferring to stay on the bed almost all of the time. Her breathing is also fairly rapid and has been for quite a few days.Hopefully this will be another success story for your kitty cocktail. We'llowe you much if it works. On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Amani Oakley wrote:RandyI really don?t know. I have only had experience with the pills which I found very effective. As a compromise option, I would take if that is the only way the vet will agree to proceed.Amani*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Randy Henke*Sent:* December-19-16 9:46 AM *To:* [email protected] *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis Hi Amani,I have a call in to our vet now about the Winstrol and Doxycycline. I've read that there is also the option of getting a weekly shot of Winstrol as opposed to the pills. If our vet balks at prescribing the pills but wouldbe willing to give her the shot would it still work as well? On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Amani Oakley wrote: Wishing you luck. Amani*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] *On BehalfOf *Randy Henke *Sent:* December-16-16 8:12 PM *To:* [email protected] *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosisThank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on Monday.On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley wrote: 1 mg 2 times a day. Amani*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] *On BehalfOf *Randy Henke *Sent:* December-16-16 7:52 PM *To:* [email protected] *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosisThat is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do you know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I want to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is acorticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune system. What you need right now is something to stimulate red cellproduction. If your cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor cells in the bone marrow will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and thus, the red cell production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120 days in circulation, so once that is over and they die, then they must bereplenished by a steady supply of new cells from the bone marrow.The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I useit in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard thereproduction of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of drugs that worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit result of 5 (with the reference range being something like 25 to 35, off the top of my head). I had tried LTCI and interferon and even though I tested his blood weekly, I saw no change/improvement at all in his red cell count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled upon the use of Winstrol (he was already on prednisone and Doxy, but theydon?t work without the Winstrol), that I saw a steady and sustained improvement in his haematology numbers. The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids oftenimplicated in athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about prescribing it. Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment was published where cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of Winstrol as a ?loading dose? and developed liver problems. So between these two driving forces, you have a lot of uneducated vets who will either think you are ?unethical? for asking for the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful drug thanks to the stupid scientific study that was published. Plus, even where they are willing to prescribe it (like in Sherri?s case) they don?t recognize the need to couple it with the Doxycycline, and thus, you do geta weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the virus is reproducingrampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of course, not recognizing the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the use of Winstrol as afailure and not likely use it again.) Other medications that might increase red cell production are erythropoietin and related medications, but erythropoietin does notencourage bone marrow growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the progenitor cells in the bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells and platelets, have been killed by the virus (or converted to infectedcells, spewing out more virus) then the erythropoietin will not beeffective because it simply encourages those progenitor cells to produce more red cells. However, because they can?t and thus cannot respond to the stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat doesn?t have FELV, and has anemia because of some other cause, then the erythropoietin might work.)Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it effectively in older adults for osteoporosis), and I don?t anything else which fits thebill.Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal walls, or other problems with moving food through the intestines. My cat did, and that resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and (c) slow bowelmovements. I therefore found it necessary to add a ? tablet ofmetoclompromine (Reglen) before meal times twice a day. Worked like a charm.This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain death. Ihad given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is only ashort-term solution and he wasn?t producing any red cells (reticulocyte count was basically zero ? this is a measure of new red cell production and should be increased in cases of anemia to demonstrate that the body is producing red cells to compensate for the reduced red cell count). He had had a reaction with his last blood transfusion, and so no more transfusions were possible since the next one would kill him, and I was all out of options as I watched his haematocrit level drop lower and lower, week by week. It had dropped to 10 when I ?discovered? an old bottle of Winstrol inmy drawer. Whew. Guess how many times I have given this speech?? Amani *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected] ] *On Behalf Of *Randy Henke *Sent:* December-16-16 9:15 AM *To:* [email protected] *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosisIt's interesting that our vet was very hesitant about even prescribing Prednisone because he is afraid it will suppress her immunity to secondary infections. I know that is a risk. Would adding Winstrol suppress herimmune system even further? I'm very confused about how to proceed. On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Ardy Robertson wrote:If I can chime in on Winstrol, it did wonders on my Tigger to get hisbloodwork up. I only wish I had started it sooner, along with the prednisolone and doxycycline. Best of luck! Ardy _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list [email protected] http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list [email protected] http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list [email protected] http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list [email protected] http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list [email protected] http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ------------------------------ End of Felvtalk Digest, Vol 32, Issue 36 ****************************************_______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list [email protected] http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 21:57:00 -0600From: "Ardy Robertson" To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bogey's Blood Test TodayMessage-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Best of luck to both Bogey and Curly!! This is great news! ArdyFrom: Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Randy HenkeSent: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 3:54 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bogey's Blood Test TodayThat is phenomenal, Sherri! I'm hoping for a repeat of that performance with our girl, Curly.On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Sherri Godschalk > wrote:Bogey is still improving. The Dr came out to talk with me himself instead of sending out a tech. Never does that. He said everything looked good except her red blood cells have gotten smaller but there are more of them. As well as him being concerned about infection since her WBC and NEU are elevated. I read that can be from pred and he gave her a shot of it before he sent her home last week when normally I gave her a pill each day. He wants me to start her back on the Doxy and Winstrol but not the pred yet. I still feel like it might be soon on the Winstrol since she hasn't been out of the hospital for even a week yet. I will post the 2nd page of the blood test later if anyone is interested. But LOOK at the Platelet count...go Bogey!Range 20-Dec 12-Dec 26-Oct 30-Sep 16-Sep 24-Aug RBC 6.54 12.2 5.57 4.99 2.54 2.9 2.57 2.43 HCT 30.3 52.3 30.9 35.1 14.8 17.9 15.3 15.3 HGB 9.8 16.2 10.2 10.4 5.2 6.2 5.5 5.3 MCV 35.9 53.1 55.5 70.3 58.3 61.7 59.1 62.6 MCH 11.8 17.3 18.3 20.8 20.5 21.4 21.4 21.8 MCHC 28.1 35.8 33 29.6 35.1 34.6 36.2 34.9 RDW 15 27 23.8 22.2 24.5 25.2 23.7 23.9 RETIC 3 50 37.3 27.4 89.9 82.1 78.1 61.5 WBC 2.87 17.02 22.34 8.59 13.05 12.01 14.47 13.46 NEU 1.48 10.29 15.82 5.42 3.97 3.96 4.07 4.03 LYM 0.92 6.88 3.98 2.21 7.8 6.81 8.83 7.75 MONO 0.05 0.67 1.89 0.87 1.16 1.17 1.52 1.58 EOS 0.17 1.57 0.49 0.08 0.11 0.06 0.004 0.01 BASO 0.01 0.26 0.16 0.01 0.01 0.01 0.01 0 PLT 151 800 295 122 28 53 88 50 0 _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list[email protected] http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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