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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Curly's gradual improvement (Randy Henke)
2. Re: Curly's gradual improvement (dlg...@windstream.net)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 08:52:02 -0600
From: Randy Henke To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Curly's latest labs from yesterday show another hematocrit leap from
15% to
23% in 2 1/2 weeks. She has also gained 6/10 of a pound! (7.1 up from
6.5).
Behaviorally she is almost back to her old self. She is no longer
hiding,
seeks out attention and is eating well. Our vet told us he is
astounded.
But more importantly, he said that he is changing his treatment for
FELV
cats based on Curly's remarkable improvement and will be using
Prednisone,
Winstrol and Doxycyline in the future. A small win for our side
against
this disease.
Her blood chemistry test did show that her ALT levels have risen to
174
which is an indicator that liver cells are being destroyed. Our vet
said it
is definitely a result of the anabolic steroid but he isn't overly
concerned yet. H wants us to continue treatment for another month.
Once
Curly's hematocrit is up to around 30 he wants to start cycling the
Winstrol, one week on and one week off, to give her liver a chance to
regenerate.
Without this forum and the advice I received here along with a very
understanding and open-minded vet, I'm quite sure Curly wouldn't be
around
anymore. I have my fingers crossed that we can keep things balanced
and
headed in the right direction but so far, so good!
On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:
Hopefully, we start winning the vets over when they see the results,
and
they start to tell each other about some success for FeLV cats with
this
combination. By the way, I have also effectively used this
combination for
a cat who, I believe had FIV, and I currently am using just the
Doxy/Winstrol combination on 2 of 3 kittens we picked up from the
side of
the road in August and they displayed the symptoms of Lyme Disease
(alternating lameness and other signs). In the last case, I am pretty
sure
that the majority of the effect on the Lyme organism *(Borrelia
bergdorferi) *is from the Doxycycline, but the good effect on the
lameness (which had been in place for several months before I thought
to
try the medications) is I believe as a result of the use of the
Winstrol.
When the vets tell me that (a) they don?t know what the diagnosis is
and
other options seem ineffective or (b) they tell me there is no hope,
I will
usually try the Winstrol and almost always get a decent result.
Amani
*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On
Behalf
Of *Randy Henke
*Sent:* January-22-17 11:54 AM
*To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Amani, you asked what our vet thought about Curly's improvement. He
was
very pleased but I think he was also a little surprised. He is an
incredible vet and always goes the extra mile to listen and explain
things.
He was also very open to letting us try the Prednisolone, Doxy and
Winstrol, even though he'd never treated a FELV cat in that way. I
think he
thought it would help put my mind at ease that we'd tried everything
we
could and he's right. It would have done that even if the treatment
hadn't
worked. He was very concerned about the Prednisolone opening her up
to
secondary infections but once he saw the numbers start to improve he
was
convinced we were doing the right thing and told us to keep it up. I
am
going to talk to him about continuing the Doxy.
Robert, that's a great idea about crushing the Doxy, mixing it in
broth
and administering with a syringe. We'd tried mixing it in her food
once and
that did not go well. Obviously it's a very nasty tasting medicine.
Ardy and Katherine, thanks for your support. I really wish that more
vets
were open to trying novel treatments that hold so much potential
instead of
assuming that they know everything.
Randy
On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:
Oh Randy, I am so THRILLED to hear of your positive response to the
medications, and that your vet was so helpful. (What does your vet
think of
the response?) You may think that 15% haematocrit is still very sick,
and
it is still well outside the normal range, but you?ve basically had a
60%
increase in haematocrit in 3 weeks. That is quite amazing and
wonderful. It
is as good a result as you would have had with 2 units of blood being
given
as a transfusion, only it is much better than a transfusion because
Curly
is producing her own cells, rather than temporarily filling up with
someone
else?s blood.
With respect to the Doxy, I am not sure. If it were me, I would
probably
want to continue if you can. You?ve had a very good result. Why mess
with
the formula? I can?t say definitively, one way or the other, since I
very
much figured things out by running weekly blood work and if I saw a
dip or
a reversal in the numbers, I would adjust the medication accordingly.
I
don?t know if I am right about my Doxy theory (and it is just pure
conjecture on my part, based on my non-vet research) but I really
think
that the Doxy is part of the effective package. I feel that the Doxy
holds
the virus in check ? perhaps slowing down its reproduction by
inhibiting
RNA synthesis ? enough to allow the body to make some progress with
the
Winstrol. I don?t think that the Winstrol on its own is enough.
With the Doxy, I used to scrape the quarter tablet into a slab of
butter
to coat it with butter, to help it slide down better, since the
quarter
table it very dry and scratchy. I also posted recently that the Doxy
we get
from vets (and even from our doctors) is the same as what you can get
to
treat fish or birds, in a pet store, and that is sold in powdered
packages
of 100 mg (same as 1 tablet). A prescription isn?t needed for it, and
because it is powdered, it can be mixed into food or liquid.
Great news, too, with your success in getting her to eat more and put
on
weight.
I love to hear good news on this front. Let?s hope she continues in
the
right direction.
Amani
*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On
Behalf
Of *Randy Henke
*Sent:* January-19-17 9:53 PM
*To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
It has been a little over a month ago that I asked for advice on this
forum for our little girl, Curly.
At that point, I had little hope. She was so lethargic and her
hematocrit
had dipped to a critical 9%. I took everyone's advice, especially
Amani's,
and asked our vet for Predisolone, Winstrol and Doxycycline.
According to her latest CBC two weeks ago, she is still a very sick
kitty
but her hematocrit rebounded to 15% which I know is still very low.
All
other numbers are improving slowly as well. That was after less than
three
weeks of treatment.
She is due for another CBC next Tuesday and I am hopeful we will see
more
improvement. I've noticed her gums are more pink which I believe is a
good
sign.
We were still having problems with getting her to eat. She would have
her
good days and her bad days but her weight was still creeping down.
Last
week I asked our vet about Mirtazapine and our vet agreed to give us
a
prescription for it. I have to thank Robert for mentioning this in
one of
his posts.
One day last week she didn't want to eat so I gave her a quarter pill
(3.75 mg) which is the dose our vet prescribed to give her daily. The
result was phenomenal and almost a little scary. She was bouncing off
the
walls within a few hours and eating everything she could get her paws
on. I
almost felt a little sorry for her because it was like she couldn't
sit
still for more than a couple of minutes. But it was like getting our
old
Curly back again in just a single day!
The effect tapered off after a couple of days and we didn't feel
comfortable giving her another dose until she stopped eating again
because
of how dramatic the change was. I've read online that a smaller dose
could
be effective if given every 72 hours so we are going to try doing
that so
she keeps eating. It was incredible to see her weight go up by a
quarter
pound in just a couple of days.
We are continuing the Prednisolone and Winstrol at the recommended
doses
but our two week Doxycycline prescription ran out over a week ago.
She does
appear to still be making improvement without it but I'm wondering if
I
should ask for another prescription to keep that going as well.
I always worry about giving her the quarter pill of Doxy because I
know it
can cause esophageal damage if it isn't followed by liquids. I was
following the pill with the liquid Winstrol solution but wasn't sure
if
that was enough.
Many thanks to everyone who gave us advice. It looks like we might
have
our Curly back for at least a while yet and it's all because of you
people.
Randy
_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 11:34:03 -0600
From: To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Message-ID: <20170126123403.02FDQ.12771.root@pamxwww08-z01>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Great results for Curly and the vet!
---- Randy Henke wrote:
Curly's latest labs from yesterday show another hematocrit leap from
15% to
23% in 2 1/2 weeks. She has also gained 6/10 of a pound! (7.1 up from
6.5).
Behaviorally she is almost back to her old self. She is no longer
hiding,
seeks out attention and is eating well. Our vet told us he is
astounded.
But more importantly, he said that he is changing his treatment for
FELV
cats based on Curly's remarkable improvement and will be using
Prednisone,
Winstrol and Doxycyline in the future. A small win for our side
against
this disease.
Her blood chemistry test did show that her ALT levels have risen to
174
which is an indicator that liver cells are being destroyed. Our vet
said it
is definitely a result of the anabolic steroid but he isn't overly
concerned yet. H wants us to continue treatment for another month.
Once
Curly's hematocrit is up to around 30 he wants to start cycling the
Winstrol, one week on and one week off, to give her liver a chance to
regenerate.
Without this forum and the advice I received here along with a very
understanding and open-minded vet, I'm quite sure Curly wouldn't be
around
anymore. I have my fingers crossed that we can keep things balanced
and
headed in the right direction but so far, so good!
On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:
Hopefully, we start winning the vets over when they see the results,
and
they start to tell each other about some success for FeLV cats with
this
combination. By the way, I have also effectively used this
combination for
a cat who, I believe had FIV, and I currently am using just the
Doxy/Winstrol combination on 2 of 3 kittens we picked up from the
side of
the road in August and they displayed the symptoms of Lyme Disease
(alternating lameness and other signs). In the last case, I am
pretty sure
that the majority of the effect on the Lyme organism *(Borrelia
bergdorferi) *is from the Doxycycline, but the good effect on the
lameness (which had been in place for several months before I
thought to
try the medications) is I believe as a result of the use of the
Winstrol.
When the vets tell me that (a) they don?t know what the diagnosis is
and
other options seem ineffective or (b) they tell me there is no hope,
I will
usually try the Winstrol and almost always get a decent result.
Amani
*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On
Behalf
Of *Randy Henke
*Sent:* January-22-17 11:54 AM
*To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Amani, you asked what our vet thought about Curly's improvement. He
was
very pleased but I think he was also a little surprised. He is an
incredible vet and always goes the extra mile to listen and explain
things.
He was also very open to letting us try the Prednisolone, Doxy and
Winstrol, even though he'd never treated a FELV cat in that way. I
think he
thought it would help put my mind at ease that we'd tried everything
we
could and he's right. It would have done that even if the treatment
hadn't
worked. He was very concerned about the Prednisolone opening her up
to
secondary infections but once he saw the numbers start to improve he
was
convinced we were doing the right thing and told us to keep it up. I
am
going to talk to him about continuing the Doxy.
Robert, that's a great idea about crushing the Doxy, mixing it in
broth
and administering with a syringe. We'd tried mixing it in her food
once and
that did not go well. Obviously it's a very nasty tasting medicine.
Ardy and Katherine, thanks for your support. I really wish that more
vets
were open to trying novel treatments that hold so much potential
instead of
assuming that they know everything.
Randy
On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:
Oh Randy, I am so THRILLED to hear of your positive response to the
medications, and that your vet was so helpful. (What does your vet
think of
the response?) You may think that 15% haematocrit is still very
sick, and
it is still well outside the normal range, but you?ve basically had
a 60%
increase in haematocrit in 3 weeks. That is quite amazing and
wonderful. It
is as good a result as you would have had with 2 units of blood
being given
as a transfusion, only it is much better than a transfusion because
Curly
is producing her own cells, rather than temporarily filling up with
someone
else?s blood.
With respect to the Doxy, I am not sure. If it were me, I would
probably
want to continue if you can. You?ve had a very good result. Why mess
with
the formula? I can?t say definitively, one way or the other, since I
very
much figured things out by running weekly blood work and if I saw a
dip or
a reversal in the numbers, I would adjust the medication
accordingly. I
don?t know if I am right about my Doxy theory (and it is just pure
conjecture on my part, based on my non-vet research) but I really
think
that the Doxy is part of the effective package. I feel that the Doxy
holds
the virus in check ? perhaps slowing down its reproduction by
inhibiting
RNA synthesis ? enough to allow the body to make some progress with
the
Winstrol. I don?t think that the Winstrol on its own is enough.
With the Doxy, I used to scrape the quarter tablet into a slab of
butter
to coat it with butter, to help it slide down better, since the
quarter
table it very dry and scratchy. I also posted recently that the Doxy
we get
from vets (and even from our doctors) is the same as what you can
get to
treat fish or birds, in a pet store, and that is sold in powdered
packages
of 100 mg (same as 1 tablet). A prescription isn?t needed for it,
and
because it is powdered, it can be mixed into food or liquid.
Great news, too, with your success in getting her to eat more and
put on
weight.
I love to hear good news on this front. Let?s hope she continues in
the
right direction.
Amani
*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On
Behalf
Of *Randy Henke
*Sent:* January-19-17 9:53 PM
*To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
It has been a little over a month ago that I asked for advice on
this
forum for our little girl, Curly.
At that point, I had little hope. She was so lethargic and her
hematocrit
had dipped to a critical 9%. I took everyone's advice, especially
Amani's,
and asked our vet for Predisolone, Winstrol and Doxycycline.
According to her latest CBC two weeks ago, she is still a very sick
kitty
but her hematocrit rebounded to 15% which I know is still very low.
All
other numbers are improving slowly as well. That was after less than
three
weeks of treatment.
She is due for another CBC next Tuesday and I am hopeful we will see
more
improvement. I've noticed her gums are more pink which I believe is
a good
sign.
We were still having problems with getting her to eat. She would
have her
good days and her bad days but her weight was still creeping down.
Last
week I asked our vet about Mirtazapine and our vet agreed to give us
a
prescription for it. I have to thank Robert for mentioning this in
one of
his posts.
One day last week she didn't want to eat so I gave her a quarter
pill
(3.75 mg) which is the dose our vet prescribed to give her daily.
The
result was phenomenal and almost a little scary. She was bouncing
off the
walls within a few hours and eating everything she could get her
paws on. I
almost felt a little sorry for her because it was like she couldn't
sit
still for more than a couple of minutes. But it was like getting our
old
Curly back again in just a single day!
The effect tapered off after a couple of days and we didn't feel
comfortable giving her another dose until she stopped eating again
because
of how dramatic the change was. I've read online that a smaller dose
could
be effective if given every 72 hours so we are going to try doing
that so
she keeps eating. It was incredible to see her weight go up by a
quarter
pound in just a couple of days.
We are continuing the Prednisolone and Winstrol at the recommended
doses
but our two week Doxycycline prescription ran out over a week ago.
She does
appear to still be making improvement without it but I'm wondering
if I
should ask for another prescription to keep that going as well.
I always worry about giving her the quarter pill of Doxy because I
know it
can cause esophageal damage if it isn't followed by liquids. I was
following the pill with the liquid Winstrol solution but wasn't sure
if
that was enough.
Many thanks to everyone who gave us advice. It looks like we might
have
our Curly back for at least a while yet and it's all because of you
people.
Randy
_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
------------------------------
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------------------------------
End of Felvtalk Digest, Vol 33, Issue 29
****************************************
