Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
felvtalk-ow...@felineleukemia.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Knowing the " whys" of Win/Pred/Doxy (Jennifer Olson)
2. Re: RNA effects of Doxy (ROBERT CHAPEL)
3. Losing patience (Jennifer Olson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 22:19:00 -0600
From: Jennifer Olson To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Cc: ROBERT CHAPEL Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Knowing the " whys" of
Win/Pred/Doxy
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Alright- Figaro just pee'd on my bed right- next to me- after I
cleaned
box (and then his paws because he made loose poop & got litter ETC on
the
bed) caught him in the act. He hasn't been neutered yet. I threw my
bedding
into washer, sprayed bed with "Nature's Miracle- No Spray" & resolved
I am
NOT remaking bed...
I can hear him crying, like he does when I AM there trying to go to
sleep.
Overnight is the biggest lump of time I can be with him so he isn't
COMPLETELY isolated, alone.... I hate this.
Do I just go to bed now upstairs, or TRY to lay in a dry spot with new
blankets?????
='~{
On Mar 1, 2017 4:26 PM, wrote:
AMEN TO THAT! I especially get angry that they do not consider
alternative medicine a viable tratment. Unless I get a broken arm, I
first
try alternative meds. I have not had a flu shot for over 8 years and
have
not had a cold or flu. I use ginger, turmeric, garlic, onion,
cinnamon as
my anti flu meds. I just wish we knew more about animals (cats) and
herbs,
which is safe or not safe to use. Then when something comes up on a
weekend/holiday and I cannot et my cat to the vet, I would be able to
start
treatment until I can get to a vet.
---- ROBERT CHAPEL wrote:
Amani...
If we consider the extended time frame for Doxy and multiple courses
of
other ABX it makes a certain "intuitive" sense that a non bacterial
infection is going to require a longer period of time to have
whatever
non-specific ( read... not related to bacterial infection
necessarily)... So little research money appears to be devoted to
FeLV
that I don't know that we'll know in the next decade unless the
continuing demands of consumers ( who do NOT want to hear , in this
day
and age of " Miracles") that there is _ no hope_ for their much loved
pets) alter this course. I STILL bristle when I think of the
closed
minds in the medical and Veterinary community and SO resent that
businessmen( Yes...that is what the vast majority are turning into
now
that practices are being forced to consolidate into " Health
Systems")..
hold the power of life and death over us AND our pets. On the plus
side.... with the business model being what it is ( and in contrast
to
the lost art of " professionalism") The CONSUMER is always right.
Vets
will be forced, in the future, to work more closely with the "
customers" wishes as attachment to a given vet will become less
common
as time goes on and people will " practice shop " for the answers
they
want until such time as Vet services become so expensive that
insurance
becomes a " must have " and ultimately go the way of medicine (
ie...being confined to a slate of approved practitioners...
again....limiting choice)... But... there are some years to go
before
that happens and I feel that there IS a window of opportunity
happening
NOW and for the next few years for people to have some real
influence
on how Vets practice.... I am betting, for example, that had I had
the
money to go to a more " well to do " neighborhood where people are
more
demanding and better informed I could have found a vet to
cooperate...
Here in the "sticks" people just blindly accept what the vet has to
say
and they still enjoy the freedom of calling all the shots..... This
WILL end over the next couple of years. I learned a lot with this
first
experience and made mistakes that I WILL NOT make again.
BTW.... Do you have any literature in support of the AntiRNA effects
of
Doxy... I am SO happy that there are still a couple of things out
there that we still can get our hands on that don't have to pass
muster
with script pad businessmen.... STILL I am also not advocating the
the
medically ill prepared take it upon themselves to decide that THEY
will
decide what is best for their animal... If we are going to go above
and
beyond our Vets advice it would best be with very sound reasoning and
an
EXCELLENT understanding of what we are doing and why. Anything less
and the community of Veterinary practitioners could easily dismiss
our
successes as "dumb luck" or ascribe them to " unknown" factors.....
I
think this is particularly important re: Winstrol/Pred/Doxy I'd
hate
to see people going to their vets asking for this combination of
drugs
and really having an inadequate understanding of why they are asking
for
beyond the fact that it's been recommended on our forum... For
myself... I am clear on the Whys of Winstrol and Doxy ( though will
be
looking for more lit support on the RNA effects of Doxy) but not
clear
on the whys of the Pred.
Sorry for taking up so much space here but I'm having an " attack "
of
missing my little guy and am tremulous about being caught in the same
position if I take in another FeLV as I am inclined to do....
_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 04:19:05 -0500 (EST)
From: ROBERT CHAPEL To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] RNA effects of Doxy
Message-ID: <66d3a0cb.50b3f.15a8e50d2f6.webtop...@optonline.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no
Thanks Amani... this is very helpful and I will do my best to locate
these references... preferably the full articles if they don't charge
too much for them ( I no longer work in hospitals and don't have
access to full medical databases ( for free)...
VERY interesting about the ebola virus and the eyes.... it does indeed
appear that the virus established a foothold in Yogi's eyes....??
BUT... it was also via the eyes that I was able to introduce antiviral
meds that my Veterinary opthalmologist was using off label.....? Of
course the target for these meds was the Herpes Virus....but it too
,is,? a retro Virus and these meds "might" have had some effect on the
FeLV virus as well
had I used them for a longer time ( though I would have had to have
sold my house to do so : )
You can find ALL sorts of aid for these Anti Virals if you are using
them for HIV or Herpes 1 or 2 but they are hard to locate at discount
for Veterinary Use.....? I really am VERY concerned at the price of
Vet services as I feel they will ultimately reduce the number of pet
owners.....? I was able to easily afford to keep 4 cats on a rather
low Social Worker income back in the 80's but keeping one ill FeLV in
2017 can easily add 400.00 a month to ones expenses....? Many people
who might formerly have adopted multiple cats will now only take in
one or? two.....? All the more reason for forums like ours as it is up
to us to share our knowledge and experiences to help each other avoid
total reliance on a veterinary system that is not always working to
preserve our FeLV cats lives..... ? ?
Hi Bob
I am unable to attach the literature regarding the ability of
Doxycycline to interfere with RNA replication and/or interfere with
viral infection, but here are a few titles to look up on the
Internet:
- Antiviral activity of doxycycline against vesicular stomatitis
virus in vitro - FEMS Microbiol Lett. 2015
- Control of small inhibitory RNA levels and RNA interference by
doxycycline induced activation of a minimal RNA polymerase III
promoter - 2006 Nucleic Acids Res. 34
- Inhibitory effect of doxycycline against dengue virus replication
in vitro - October 2013 Archives of Virology 159(4)
- Study of the antiviral activity of some derivatives of tetracycline
and non-steroid anti-inflammatory drugs towards dengue virus - August
2013 Tropical Biomedicine 30(4):1-10 (BY THE WAY - DOXYCYCLINE IS A
TETRACYCLINE)
- A study of the clinical activity of a gel combining monocaprin and
doxycycline: a novel treatment for herpes labialis. (2012) J Oral
Path Med 41:61-67
The following paper was interesting in that it explored the role of
Doxycycline in inhibiting tumour cell proliferation, angiogenesis,
metastasis and migration of cancerous cells (including leukemic
cells) from the bone marrow:
- Doxycycline inhibits leukemic cell migration via inhibition of
matrix metalloproteinases and phosphorylation of focal adhesion
kinase - published Molecular Medicine Reports, September 2015 Vol.
12, Issue 3.
Amani
P.S. - By the way, Bob. The other thing that was featured in that
show last night about the fight against Ebola, is that the same
doctor who contracted it and was declared symptom-free, later began
to develop eye problems and when they examined his eye, they found
millions of the Ebola viruses in the eye. The programme explained
that the eye was an area of reduced immunity in the body, and thus,
the virus had found a breeding ground where it remained, though it
had been cleared from the rest of the body. They therefore began
treating the doctor's eye, and the treatment was ultimately
successful. It brought to mind the problems Yogi had had with his
eyes, and I wondered if the answer was similar - that the virus had
had a toe-hold there.
-----Original Message-----
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
Of ROBERT CHAPEL
Sent: March-01-17 5:02 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Cc: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Knowing the " whys" of Win/Pred/Doxy
Amani...
If we consider the extended time frame for Doxy and multiple courses
of other ABX it makes a certain "intuitive" sense that a non
bacterial infection is going to require a longer period of time to
have whatever non-specific ( read... not related to bacterial
infection necessarily)...? So little research money appears to be
devoted to FeLV that I don't know that we'll know in the next decade
unless the continuing demands of consumers ( who do NOT want to hear
, in this day and age of " Miracles") that there is _ no hope_ for
their much loved
pets) alter this course.??? I STILL bristle when I think of the
closed minds in the medical and Veterinary community and SO resent
that businessmen( Yes...that is what the vast majority are turning
into now that practices are being forced to consolidate into " Health
Systems").. hold the power of life and death over us AND our pets.??
On the plus side.... with the business model being what it is ( and
in contrast to the lost art of " professionalism")? The CONSUMER is
always right.? Vets will be forced, in the future, to work more
closely with the " customers" wishes as attachment to a given vet
will become less common as time goes on and people will " practice
shop " for the answers they want until such time as Vet services
become so expensive that insurance becomes a " must have " and
ultimately go the way of medicine ( ie...being confined to a slate of
approved practitioners... again....limiting choice)...? But... there
are some years to go before that happens and I feel that there IS a
window of opportunity happening NOW and for the next few? years for
people to have some real influence on how Vets practice....?? I am
betting, for example, that had I had the money to go to a more " well
to do " neighborhood where people are more demanding and better
informed I could have found a vet to cooperate... Here in the
"sticks" people just blindly accept what the vet has to say and they
still enjoy the freedom of calling all the shots.....?? This WILL end
over the next couple of years.? I learned a lot with this first
experience and made mistakes that I WILL NOT make again.
BTW....? Do you have any literature in support of the AntiRNA effects
of Doxy...???? I am SO happy that there are still a couple of things
out there that we still can get our hands on that don't have to pass
muster with script pad businessmen....? STILL I am also not
advocating the the medically ill prepared take it upon themselves to
decide that THEY will decide what is best for their animal... If we
are going to go above and beyond our Vets advice it would best be
with very sound reasoning and an EXCELLENT understanding of what we
are doing and why.?? Anything less and the community of Veterinary
practitioners could easily dismiss our successes as "dumb luck" or
ascribe them to " unknown" factors.....? I think this is particularly
important re: Winstrol/Pred/Doxy?? I'd hate to see people going to
their vets asking for this combination of drugs and really having an
inadequate understanding of why they are asking for beyond the fact
that it's been recommended on our forum...??? For m
yself... I am clear on the Whys of Winstrol and Doxy ( though will
be looking for more lit support on the RNA effects of Doxy) but not
clear on the whys of the Pred.
Sorry for taking up so much space here but I'm having an " attack "
of missing my little guy and am tremulous about being caught in the
same position if I take in another FeLV as I am inclined to do....
_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
------------------------------
End of Felvtalk Digest, Vol 35, Issue 3
***************************************
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 07:38:35 -0600
From: Jennifer Olson To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Losing patience
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Figaro is adorable, but I'm so frustrated with the whole situation-
I'm begining to consider other livining arrangements... aka
placement...
On Mar 2, 2017 3:19 AM, "ROBERT CHAPEL" wrote:
Thanks Amani... this is very helpful and I will do my best to locate
these
references... preferably the full articles if they don't charge too
much
for them ( I no longer work in hospitals and don't have access to full
medical databases ( for free)...
VERY interesting about the ebola virus and the eyes.... it does indeed
appear that the virus established a foothold in Yogi's eyes....
BUT... it
was also via the eyes that I was able to introduce antiviral meds that
my
Veterinary opthalmologist was using off label..... Of course the
target
for these meds was the Herpes Virus....but it too ,is, a retro Virus
and
these meds "might" have had some effect on the FeLV virus as well
had I used them for a longer time ( though I would have had to have
sold my
house to do so : )
You can find ALL sorts of aid for these Anti Virals if you are using
them
for HIV or Herpes 1 or 2 but they are hard to locate at discount for
Veterinary Use..... I really am VERY concerned at the price of Vet
services as I feel they will ultimately reduce the number of pet
owners..... I was able to easily afford to keep 4 cats on a rather
low
Social Worker income back in the 80's but keeping one ill FeLV in 2017
can
easily add 400.00 a month to ones expenses.... Many people who might
formerly have adopted multiple cats will now only take in one or
two.....
All the more reason for forums like ours as it is up to us to share
our
knowledge and experiences to help each other avoid total reliance on a
veterinary system that is not always working to preserve our FeLV cats
lives.....
Hi Bob
I am unable to attach the literature regarding the ability of
Doxycycline
to interfere with RNA replication and/or interfere with viral
infection,
but here are a few titles to look up on the Internet:
- Antiviral activity of doxycycline against vesicular stomatitis
virus in
vitro - FEMS Microbiol Lett. 2015
- Control of small inhibitory RNA levels and RNA interference by
doxycycline induced activation of a minimal RNA polymerase III
promoter -
2006 Nucleic Acids Res. 34
- Inhibitory effect of doxycycline against dengue virus replication
in
vitro - October 2013 Archives of Virology 159(4)
- Study of the antiviral activity of some derivatives of tetracycline
and
non-steroid anti-inflammatory drugs towards dengue virus - August
2013
Tropical Biomedicine 30(4):1-10 (BY THE WAY - DOXYCYCLINE IS A
TETRACYCLINE)
- A study of the clinical activity of a gel combining monocaprin and
doxycycline: a novel treatment for herpes labialis. (2012) J Oral
Path Med
41:61-67
The following paper was interesting in that it explored the role of
Doxycycline in inhibiting tumour cell proliferation, angiogenesis,
metastasis and migration of cancerous cells (including leukemic
cells) from
the bone marrow:
- Doxycycline inhibits leukemic cell migration via inhibition of
matrix
metalloproteinases and phosphorylation of focal adhesion kinase -
published
Molecular Medicine Reports, September 2015 Vol. 12, Issue 3.
Amani
P.S. - By the way, Bob. The other thing that was featured in that
show
last night about the fight against Ebola, is that the same doctor who
contracted it and was declared symptom-free, later began to develop
eye
problems and when they examined his eye, they found millions of the
Ebola
viruses in the eye. The programme explained that the eye was an area
of
reduced immunity in the body, and thus, the virus had found a
breeding
ground where it remained, though it had been cleared from the rest of
the
body. They therefore began treating the doctor's eye, and the
treatment was
ultimately successful. It brought to mind the problems Yogi had had
with
his eyes, and I wondered if the answer was similar - that the virus
had had
a toe-hold there.
-----Original Message-----
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
Of
ROBERT CHAPEL
Sent: March-01-17 5:02 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Cc: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Knowing the " whys" of Win/Pred/Doxy
Amani...
If we consider the extended time frame for Doxy and multiple courses
of
other ABX it makes a certain "intuitive" sense that a non bacterial
infection is going to require a longer period of time to have
whatever
non-specific ( read... not related to bacterial infection
necessarily)...?
So little research money appears to be devoted to FeLV that I don't
know
that we'll know in the next decade unless the continuing demands of
consumers ( who do NOT want to hear , in this day and age of "
Miracles")
that there is _ no hope_ for their much loved
pets) alter this course.??? I STILL bristle when I think of the
closed
minds in the medical and Veterinary community and SO resent that
businessmen( Yes...that is what the vast majority are turning into
now that
practices are being forced to consolidate into " Health Systems")..
hold
the power of life and death over us AND our pets.?? On the plus
side....
with the business model being what it is ( and in contrast to the
lost art
of " professionalism")? The CONSUMER is always right.? Vets will be
forced,
in the future, to work more closely with the " customers" wishes as
attachment to a given vet will become less common as time goes on and
people will " practice shop " for the answers they want until such
time as
Vet services become so expensive that insurance becomes a " must have
" and
ultimately go the way of medicine ( ie...being confined to a slate of
approved practitioners... again....limiting choice)...? But... there
are
some years to go before that happens and I feel that there IS a
window of
opportunity happening NOW and for the next few? years for people to
have
some real influence on how Vets practice....?? I am betting, for
example,
that had I had the money to go to a more " well to do " neighborhood
where
people are more demanding and better informed I could have found a
vet to
cooperate... Here in the "sticks" people just blindly accept what the
vet
has to say and they still enjoy the freedom of calling all the
shots.....??
This WILL end over the next couple of years.? I learned a lot with
this
first experience and made mistakes that I WILL NOT make again.
BTW....? Do you have any literature in support of the AntiRNA effects
of
Doxy...???? I am SO happy that there are still a couple of things out
there
that we still can get our hands on that don't have to pass muster
with
script pad businessmen....? STILL I am also not advocating the the
medically ill prepared take it upon themselves to decide that THEY
will
decide what is best for their animal... If we are going to go above
and
beyond our Vets advice it would best be with very sound reasoning and
an
EXCELLENT understanding of what we are doing and why.?? Anything less
and
the community of Veterinary practitioners could easily dismiss our
successes as "dumb luck" or ascribe them to " unknown" factors.....?
I
think this is particularly important re: Winstrol/Pred/Doxy?? I'd
hate to
see people going to their vets asking for this combination of drugs
and
really having an inadequate understanding of why they are asking for
beyond
the fact that it's been recommended on our forum...??? For m
yself... I am clear on the Whys of Winstrol and Doxy ( though will
be
looking for more lit support on the RNA effects of Doxy) but not
clear on
the whys of the Pred.
Sorry for taking up so much space here but I'm having an " attack "
of
missing my little guy and am tremulous about being caught in the same
position if I take in another FeLV as I am inclined to do....
_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
------------------------------
End of Felvtalk Digest, Vol 35, Issue 3
***************************************
_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
------------------------------
End of Felvtalk Digest, Vol 35, Issue 4
***************************************
