Sue, Ok, I am confused. I would be interested in the email you received from Dr. Hartmann on her recommendations of oral interferon. Did she mention which protocol (7 on/7 off or the current recommendations for the daily therapy) would be of the utmost benefit or was it the High dose (Antiviral) injectable Interferon + AZT protocol that Preston used on one of his cats (300,000 IU every other day) that she was referring to? I unfortunately cannot locate a follow-up email to the list on Dr. Hartmann's response. The archives are quite time consuming, so after awhile I stopped looking, I must admit! The only reference I have in print of Dr. Hartmann's is perhaps prior to her response to your email. Here is the recap:
Treatment of feline leukemia virus (FeLV) infection K. Hartmann, a. Block, G. Ferk et al Veterinary Microbiology 69 (1999) 111 - 113 Study I Baypamun 11.7% seroconverted Placebo 6.7% seroconverted Study II (naturally infected) Baypamun 15.4% seroconverted Placebo 15.4% seroconverted Study III (placebo controlled double blinded study) AZT 0% seroconverted PMEA 0 seroconverted Placebo 0% seroconverted Study IV (does not state naturally or experimentally infected) AZT 0% AZT + IFN 0% INF 0% Placebo 0% Her comments on the 4th study, (IFN/AZT) "In the fourth study, seven cats were treated with AZT, 10 cats with a - interferon (IFN - a), seven cats with AZT in combination with IFN - a, and four cats with placebo. Again, no cat however, became FeLV-negative. As shown in these studies, there was no cure of FeLV infection by any of the used treatments. In 11 cats of study I and in 4 cats of study II, there was a conversion from a FeLV positive to a FeLV negative state but the difference in number was not statistically significant between the groups...... It can be assumed that they were in a state of transient viremia." Whilst I was snooping around I also located a reference on this (FeLV) list that a cat from the Holisticat Website seroconverted to a FeLV negative status using thymus, interferon & CoQ10. I could not find the follow up for confirmation so searched the Holisticat site and found one, but not using interferon. Do you have the follow up for the interferon seroconversion? The one I found was based on the 6 week ImmunoRegulin protocol for seroconversion: The kitty (Thomas) tested ELISA & IFA blood test positive. He was put on a regimen of CoQ10 & Thymus and the follow-up ELISA & IFA test showed negative. The owner wished to go further and the cat tested positive on the PCR test. The owner then instigated the cat on the 2 X per week on the 6 week ImmunoRegulin protocol for seroconversion. After week 3 the cat tested negative using the PCR test. Wasn't your kitty a discordant situation? Was he ELISA blood positive & IFA negative or ELISA blood negative & IFA blood positive? Or did you have to IFA bone marrow to determine the status? Glenda ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 2:17 PM Subject: Re: BAYPAMUN - Update > Paolo and all... I think I remember emailing Dr. Katrin Hartmann in Germany > about this a couple years ago... she does a lot of research and testing on > FELV cats... altho I'm not sure how she 'gets" her felv cats... I think > Jamie and I talked (emailed) a while back about her "giving" the cats > felv... sigh... anyway, she did say that Baypamun wasn't effective.... she > did like oral inteferon. I'll see if I can find that email. > > sue c. > Sue, I would be interested in your private email from Dr. Hartmann on her recommendations of oral interferon. Did she mention which oral protocal would be of the utmost benefit? I unfortinately cannot locate your follow email on Dr. Harrtmann';s response to her recommendation on that she liked oral interferon! The archives are quite time consuming, so after awhile, I stopped looking, admittedly! The only reference I have in print of Dr. Hartmann's is: Treatment of feline leukemia virus (FeLV) infection K. Hartmann, a. Block, G. Ferk et al Veterinary Microbiology 69 (1999) 111 - 113 www.elsevier.com/locate/vetmic Study I Baypamum 11.7% seroconverted Placebo 6.7% seroconverted Study II (naturally infected) Baypamun 15.4% seroconverted Placebo 15.4% seroconverted Study III (placebo controlled double blinded study) AZT 0% seroconverted PMEA 0 seroconverted Placebo 0% seroconverted Study IV (does not state naturally or experimentally infected) AZT 0% AZT + IFN 0% INF 0% Placebo 0% Her comments on the 4th study, "In the fourth study, seven cats were treated with AZT, 10 cats with a - interferon (IFN - a), seven cats with AZT in combination with IFN - a, and four cats with placebo. Again, no cat however, became FeLV-negative. As shown in these studies, there was no cure of FeLV infection by any of the used treatmetns. In 11 cats of study I and in 4 cats of study II, there was a conversion from a FeLV positive to a FeLV negative state but the difference in numberstatistically significant between the groups. It can be assumed that they were in a state of transient viremia. I also, whilst I was snooping around found a reference on this list that a cat from the Holisticat seroconverted using ImmunoRegulin, Interferon, thymus & CoQ10. The only cat I could locate that seroconverted was a cat named Thomas. He originally tested ELISA & IFA blood positive. They used the 6 week protocol of ImmunoRegulin and tested via PCR Hi Jamie - there was a posting on the holisticat web site about a kittie who apparently tested neg on PCR after being on immunoregulin, interferon, thymus (I think) and CoQ10. I'll pop in there to see if I can find that post and I'll copy it here.. sue c More confused than ever, > > >From: Paolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: BAYPAMUN - Update > >Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:10:34 +0100 > > > >Hi all, > > > >I have phoned again to that vet that uses Baypamun. > > > > To a precise question on my part, she answered that they don't follow > >the "Bavarian protocol" because she feels it's not useful! > > It's MY feeling that she didn't know of that protocol at all > >(at the names "Bavarian protocol" and "Anton Bayr" she asked me to > >describe the protocol itself...), and that she's probably the chief of > >the doctors in that clinic, thus tracing the guidelines for the work > >of the entire staff. > > > > Another thing that gave me a bad feeling was that she admitted not > >to believe in oral Interferon, because "cats continue to die anyway"! > > I could barely keep myself to yell at her that one should see after > >how many years, and what is their quality of life in those years!!! > > > > Anyway, the remarkable thing is another. > >They don't keep a real archive on the Baypamun therapy (they aren't > >interested in a in-depth research on this), but they treated something > >over 100 cats with it, and ALL OF THEM BECAME ASYMPTOMATIC. > > Those that didn't, were cats that had some tumoral form at the > >beginning of the treatment, or that showed it shortly after (my thought- > >they ALREADY had a tumor, just undiagnosed). > > > > And (listen listen!), although they didn't (and don't) follow the > >"Bavarian protocol" to the letter, they had several cats reverting to > >negative. > >Again, my feeling was that they weren't impressed so much with it... > > She said that she personally believes more in Baypamun that in > >interferon when treating FeLV+ cats. > > > > Now, I DON'T KNOW why the hell nobody follows that damn protocol to > >the comma, but I can fully understand Rena's frustration in talking > >of it... I remind something like if you put 10 vets and 10 pet owners > >in a room, you get AT LEAST 21 different opinions... > > > > Talked again to Bayer Italy, too. > >There is (was :( ) more than one type of Baypamun around, the > >difference being in the quantity of the product per dose (for animals > >from small to very big); for sure, there was Baypamun HK, Baypamun DC > >and Baypamun Flussig. The type for cats, of which I got hold of those > >two single doses and that you also can see on the web, is the > >Baypamun HK. > > They told me that the new and improved Baypamun will have a slightly > >different name, BAYPAMUNE, and that probably the letters for the > >different versions will be different too, but the product will be > >absolutely the same, just more stable (no refrigeration needed). > > > > Also, they told that Bayer plans to register and to sell it in Italy > >in about one year; so, if not in the "Bavarian protocol", at least > >they have an interest in expanding the market. Maybe they are planning > >to have it registered in the USA too??? I don't know, because this > >would be a question for the Bayer head office in Leverkusen (Germany), > >but I promise myself to ask again to that kind doctor of Bayer Italy > >to get some info on that, and I'll keep you informed. > > > > I don't have the original handscript of the Bavarian protocol, > >but I can indicate you the webpages where Rena describes it and the > >Baypamun itself. From THAT famous Italian girl (thanks Dany, she has > >probably any reference on the most obscure gizmos you can think of), > >I got a copy of an old post of Rena on rec.pets.cats, where she > >complained about the lack of interest in Baypamun, not only in the USA, > >but also in Germany. > > Since attachments are prohibited here, I preferred convert the HTML > >into plain ASCII and just pasted it at the end of this, so everyone > >can read, otherwise anyone interested should have asked me to post > >it privately. > > > > It would be GREAT if some old-timer of Felvtalk could locate Rena, > >also by other means (phone, mail) and ask her to get here on the list. > > She was a first-hand user of Baypamun and witness of so much success. > > > > The two links to the pages where Rena describes the Bavarian protocol > >are the following > > > >http://www.felineleukemia.com/rena.html > > > >http://www.corax.com/feline/medicin.html > > > > Here below you find the 1997 post by Rena. > > > > Greetings to everybody!!! > > Paolo > > > >================================================================= > >[Go to Google Groups Home] Advanced Groups Search Groups Help > > Groups > > > >Viewing message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >From: RDCCologne ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > >Subject: Feline Leukemia - could it be important? > >Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats > >Date: 1997/01/01 View: Complete Thread (2 articles) | Original Format > > > >Hi everybody > > > >Sorry to bother everyone again with my 'boring Charlie stories' - > >I admit that for me he's a miracle on paws and I just can't > >talk enough about him. > >I bet I'm not the only one who believes his or her cat could be > >the hero of an ongoing 20-books-saga... > > > >However, this subject might be of interest for other cats and I > >would need some (language) help with it.. > > > >As I told before Charlie was ill when I got him, and he almost > >was ill all the first two years of his life, had lots of treatments, > >some useful, some pure bullshit. > >I had no knowledge of cats at all because he was my first cat, > >and when it finally came out that he had Feline Leukemia it > >was the first time I heard about it. > > > >That time (90/91) there was a new medicine called Baypamun, > >some 'paramunity inducer', just in test and I did a lot to give him > >such a treatment as well. After a few failing attempts and a row > >of vets telling me what a nonsense this treatment is me and a > >friend finally gave him his injection treatment privately, just like > >the people who developed the stuff told us to use it. > >It was a hairy thing, we almost felt like drug dealers and were > >accused of 'cruelty to animals' by almost every vet and many > >socalled 'cat-lovers' around. > > > >But Charlie became healthy and finally leukemia-negative, and > >all his big and small illtimes were gone - he became a big, proud, > >beautiful, healthy happy cat. There were no more health problems > >until last year the urinary tract troubles started. I made sure he > >was still leukemia negative in his blood - he always had his yearly > >shots - and had to learn that his problems came from wrong food > >and his inclination for gravel. And of course of all his many treat- > >ments in his first two years. It's a cinch now that he was already > >born with leukemia, but it lasts too long until this was discovered. > > > >The Baypamun treatment that finally cured Charlie is a bit hairy to > >use, and if not used properly it doesn't work at all. The cat has to > >get his injection every 48 hours (punctually), strictly until the blood > >test is negative. The usage of antibiotica at same time spoils it all. > > > >It's much to my surprise that here in Germany it hasn't been around > >too much that Leukemia can be cured. I wrote lots of letters with > >Charlie's story but received very few answers. Some animal protectors > >blamed me for 'making propaganda for Bayer', the company > >who made Baypamun, for they accused Bayer of animal tests. > >Bayer didn't help me because German law forbid to make ads for > >animal medicine as they told me. > > > >Many people say Baypamun didn't work - never giving in that they > >probably simply used it wrong - others say it's not tested enough. > >The cats may get ill again later after years. > > > >I can just say that my always sickly and miserable looking cat turned > >into a vigorous healthy tomcat afterwards. The Baypamun therapy > >was the least stressing and painful of all the treatments he had > >before. > > > >I would like to discuss this subject in this newsgroups - maybe Leukemia > >is treated different in the States, and maybe there's someone who is > >happy to read something of a chance for a Leukemia cat. > >I remember how I felt when one vet after the other told me there's no > >hope for my cat anymore, how desperately I was seeking for help and > >how happy I was when I heard something I could hope on. > > > >The problem is that I'm not a vet, and it's already hard to throw around > >with all this medical terms in German. It's almost impossible doing it in > >English - up to now I don't even know what 'Katzenschnupfen' is in > >English - it's not in my dictionary. It was the illness Charlie had when > >he was a kitten.. > > > >Maybe there is someone around who knows something about veterinary > >or medical stuff and can help me putting up this subject in a proper way - > > > >and who would help me answering people who may ask for further > >information. > > > >Maybe Feline Leukemia is no prob in the States at all - vets over there > >may be a step further than those down here.. This would be the greatest > >thing to hear! > > > >You see the story how Charlie finally had his chance would fill a book - > >it was an Ulysses trip and a Klingon fight you can believe me. > >It could have been much easier, and there might be a cat somewhere > >who will have an advantage of this much too long and probably boring > >letter.. > > > >RDC > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- - > > Google Home - Advertise with Us - Search Solutions - News and Resources - > > Language Tools - Jobs, Press, Cool Stuff... > > > > �2002 Google > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com >
