Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2022 10:16:03 -0500
From: Clay <c...@42streams.com>
To: FFmpeg user questions <ffmpeg-user@ffmpeg.org>, Nicolas George
<geo...@nsup.org>
Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-user] ffserver
Nicolas George wrote on 11/9/22 03:18:
> I hope you do not expect getting help with that kind of attitude.
Let's be clear: I DID NOT COME HERE for what you call "HELP."
I already learned long ago that *your* type usually has no useful assistance to
offer. You are short on knowledge, and long on narcissism. What you're best
qualified for is pearl-clutching, and indignantly proclaiming how Triggered and
Offended you are. Your entire so-called "civilization" is like this. That's the
root of the problem here, and of so many other problems we face.
> To vent your frustration, please go elsewhere, this list is not made for
> that. (I suggest you prefer a therapist over violence towards people
> around you.)
What exactly in my reply would suggest "violence toward people around me"?
"Therapist"? Are you sure you're the one who doesn't need therapy?
The only person possibly at risk of "violence" in my vicinity is this thief who
has been robbing me for 6 years now. He has slowly graduated from robbing
distant outbuildings to now stealing directly from my carport, attached to my
house. I will willing to forgive him for the first small thefts, but it has
become apparent over time that this will never end. He will just keep taking
and taking and taking. The way things are progressing, it's only a matter of
time before I'd end up having to kill this asshole.
Where I live (in God's country, Alabama) I would be well within my rights to
blow this SOB's head clean off, right where he stands, then call the police to
mop up a bit and drag off the corpse. No charges would be filed, and there
would be a newspaper story a few days later, half-bragging about the
accomplishment and half warning other would-be thieves. I would be considered a
local hero. Nobody would ever touch my property again.
Clearly, by choosing instead to put up security cameras, to catch this SOB
instead and put him in prison, I am choosing the non-violent route...so rest
easy, snowflake. You can come out of your safe space, and put the teddy bear
away. You're safe here.
> I would also suggest you use a mail software that does not break
> threads, but it will not matter much anyway.
This mailer is doing exactly what I programmed it to do, and for good reason.
Thread breakage is an unfortunate, but on the whole rather inconsequential side
effect. You'll learn to live with it.
> While I *really* understand Dave's frustration (including the added
> pressure of dealing with major irl problems), Nicolas is right: this is
> not the forum for high-temp venting.
If only I had a nickel for every person who was Quite Sure my approach to life
is Completely Wrong, and they are Way Smarter and Know So Much Better than me.
Sigh.
Any rant which I feel obligated to post online does in fact tend to persuade
and influence people, far better than a person like yourself could possibly
understand. That's because I'm speaking the truth, and directly so--which is a
rare and valued commodity these days, among people who actually matter.
You ever heard the name "Dave Cutler"? How about R. Lee Ermey? Those are a
couple random examples of guys who made an entire career of telling people
exactly what they didn't want to hear, in a tone of voice they didn't
particularly like. There are millions of other equally valuable people like us,
in different places. We are fulfilling an important need: helping you
surgically remove your head from your asshole.
I didn't come here for help, though I'm thankful to those who have offered it.
I already understood going into this that I had been fucked once again by a
software project, that little would be gained from consulting the mailing list,
and that I'd just have to figure out a solution myself, as usual.
The fact is, ffmpeg introduced a half-ass streaming "solution" in ffserver,
which sucked, but could be made to work well in many configurations with some
trial and error. People figured it out, and put up working recipes to help
others along.
There very well might have been other, better software written by someone to
fill the same niche, but maybe they saw ffserver already existed, so why go
through the trouble?
Over the years a lot of people started using ffserver, and became dependent on
it. Many man-hours were spent among the userbase tweaking and customizing
config files and scripts. Lots of information was read, absorbed, and
remembered. People integrated this software into their lives, spending a lot of
time and energy on it, designing their whole system around it in many cases.
But then instead of fixing up and improving ffserver to actually be worth a
damn, the ffmpeg developers just let it stagnate then eventually dropped it,
with only this "mkvserver_mk2" bullshit they are suggesting as an completely
useless alternative.
Now there are numerous posts out there on various forums where people have been
coming in there for YEARS saying "I'm trying to set up video streaming but
ffserver is missing?? wtf?" Even still to this day, trying to use ffserver and
wondering where it went. Case in point.
Gee, thanks for leaving all of us hanging, guys.
YOU dropped the ball. YOU screwed up. Don't try to make this about ME, the end
user, like I'm somehow at fault here.
And if you don't like what I'm saying here and want to argue me into the grave
telling me I'm wrong, but you're not one of the actual ffmpeg developers, FUCK
OFF. I don't care about your less-than-useless opinion.
Any time anyone complains about any stupid decision a software project has
made, there's always got to be at leat one ballwasher chiming in with his
passive-aggressive "well why don't you just maintain it yourself?"--as if
that's a reasonable thing to expect from 95% of the userbase, and implying the
user must be some kind of lazy asshole because they can't/won't just put aside
the 100,000 things they are already doing elsewhere to do YOUR work for YOU
also.
It's not just limited to software; this sort of extremely selfish behavior has
widespread throughout the entire Western world. Someone delivers a half assed
product or service, cons people into using it, then when the user complain in
any way about the low quality of this junk, or it's discontinued and the rug is
jerked out from under the users, any complainer is treated as swine and
lectured about his "attitude", etc.
I don't want to hear a damn word about "well ffserver was deprecated years
ago." I was really surprised to see the first posts about it being deprecated
soon were all the way back in 2017. What? I only started using ffserver in
2019; I had no idea it was already deprecated at that time! All of the
tutorials on the internet recommended me to use ffserver. A lot of people were
using it, because it was the recommended software and there was nothing else
quite like it. Even today people are finding those recommendations online,
trying to use ffserver, finding it missing, and asking "wtf?"
Great job, guys. You really dropped the ball.
I ended up installing nginx plus nginx_ts plugin, and am now streaming MPEG2
video via MPEG-TS to an HLS endpoint. This was actually pretty straightforward
and easy to set up, and seems to work reliably so far. The pain in the ass was
sorting through all of the MAZE of bullshit info out there to figure out
exactly what I needed and how to get it. When I searched for "ffserver
alternative", all I found was suggestions for this mkvserver_mk2 GARBAGE. It
took a ton of searching and crawling through dozens of tabs to figure out all
the different streaming methods and their strengths and weaknesses, to see what
would work best. Fortunately, I'm a superhuman, so I was able to burn through
this quickly and get my server up and streaming within a day. I feel sorry for
anyone else trying to quickly navigate through this mess.
There is NO REASON ffmpeg could not have a very simple HTTP streaming server
built into it, with no need for any ffserver.conf at all, just basic
configuration on the same command line with every other ffmpeg component.
ffmpeg already has support for streaming (as a client) to RTP/HTTP endpoints;
why can't it have a simple, basic RTMP/HLS/DASH streaming server built in also?
If the developers don't want to put a ton of work into it, fine; just build it
around libmicrohttpd and keep it simple and basic. It doesn't have to be
anything fancy, just something that would work for most applications. But if it
were me, and I were the one developing a FULL FEATURED MULTIMEDIA SUITE, in
2022 I for damn sure would be implementing a customized, fast, streamlined HTTP
server whose only job is to serve audio/video streams as efficiently as
possible, via RTMP/HLS/DASH/whatever.
OK?? That's all I'm saying here. RANT OVER. Everyone check your appendages and
body parts, make sure everything is still there. Anyone dead? Anyone in the
hospital? No? OK. You survived. Congratulations.
Now if you'll excuse me, there's one sorry son of a bitch I'm about to put in
PRISON.
Dave
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