Hi, Robin :) Sorry to take so long to respond, lots going on, but finally had a few minutes to reread my source material yesterday, and have some comments and questions about what you wrote.

<<One view is that the indiscriminate retention of lambs allowed so much
atavism that the breed type suffered.>>

The fact that this atavism is possible so readily suggests Shetlands are a landrace breed, and that's a good thing in some views, including mine :) The very variability of color is 'atavistic' when compared to standardized breeds.

The advantage to considering Shetlands landrace instead of standardized is that it's inclusive rather than exclusive. Some people can focus on BWS, others can focus on retrieving the hidden color genetics; some can continue to select for fine wool, while others can enjoy the perfect spinner's flock in one easy breed.

If the breed is considered standardized, then we will more tightly focus on certain characteristics at the expense of others. For example, 4-horned rams in purebred Shetland is now an extreme rarity, if not gone for good (but possibly as we better understand the connection between phenotype and genotype we'll be able to bring it back, as efforts for bringing back the subtle 'modified' colors are becoming more successful). Why would one want a 4-horned ram? Obviously, because it used to exist so it would be fun to have today, for starters :) Also because, in situations with predators, a 4-horned ram will probably do a better job of protecting himself and his flock.

But also because we're just beginning to see the tip of the iceberg regarding the strange connectivity of off-the-wall genetics. That 4-horned gene or group of genes may be tied to other genes, which may in turn provide important advantages to the sheep that carry the 4-horned genetics. This is true of ALL variability--potentially, all of it has the chance to protect the breed from future illnesses and other stresses that we don't know about today.

Shetland sheep are so very close to their Iron Age roots, and that makes their 'atavism' important as well, to understanding textile history, sheep history, and therefore the social and cultural history of the people who lived where Shetlands, and similar sheep, developed. If we decided BWS are the way to go, we lose that connection and potential understanding as we lose the characteristics of the sheep as they existed back then.

Atavism that allows keeping--and especially selling as registered breeding stock--lambs or adults that are defective in some way, is of course not desirable. My own rule of thumb generally is, would the sheep have survived with this problem as they lived on the Islands? If not, generally the animal is culled. Offspring, if they appear to not have the same issue, are kept, but culled if it pops up in a way that suggests some sort of weakness in the line. Not too many Shetland breeders in the US seem to have even that much of a culling policy, from what I've observed. For example, some of our foundation stock came from a farm that told the original owner they weren't up to breed standards--yet they were sold registered. Maybe that's just an American problem.

<<AS too the endangered point  I have discussed this with some of the
founders of RBST the UK rare breeds organisation and they say that actually the Shetland ( even only counting coloured one) never met their own criteria for being endangered...>>

The dangers of using a word like endangered :) I didn't mean in the official listing view, and should, I suppose, have chosen a different word. I meant in the sense that the SFBS was formed to 'save' Shetlands from crossing out of existence as a breed. Quoting from the Shetland Sheep Breeders' Group, 1991:

"During the early years of the 20th century there was concern at the prevalence of crossing, which especially in the case of the Chevit and Blackface, led to a marked deterioration in the wool clip for Shetland as a whole. It was then recorded that in some districts purebred animals no longer existed."

I read this to mean the SFBS was formed to gather the remaining purebred Shetlands under an umbrella organization and encourage breeders to keep a pure pool, because they felt the breed was in danger of disappearing if they didn't do this. Therefore, I used the term 'endangered'. Technically I think it was considered endangerd in the US, but that always seemed a bit silly to me, when there were so many in the UK and Shetlands are not native to the US.

<<Actually the SFB set up in 1926 wrote a breed description aimed at returning the breed to the type that was successful in their parents and grand parents times. Successful commercialisation came from meeting needs for cross sheep which retained the Shetland characteristics of hardiness, easy lambing and good mothering >>

According to the SFBS Handbook, quoted above, a deterioration in the wool clip is what sparked the efforts to recognize Shetlands as a distinct breed with desirable, commercially viable characteristics. From that, I deduce that commercial competition for the wool was the first and primary objective. This is borne out by other comments in the Handbook..."The most important attribute of the breed is its wool..." "White sheep are most common...white wool commands a higher price than coloured wool because it is more suitable for dying (sic)." "It should not be forgotten that Shetlands are pre-eminently wool sheep and no known cross provides finer wool." More such comments are included in the Handbook.

Crossbreeding of Shetlands to produce F1 lambs that are larger and meatier is mentioned as a way to make flocks commercially viable today, but the focus when the SFBS was formed seems to be virtually all wool. When crossing went on before the formation of the SFBS, it seemed to have larger lambs as a goal, for more meat, and the SFBS was formed to combat that trend, according to my understanding of this material.

On the color side, the only reason to select against black mixed with white fibers, or brown mixed with white fibers, is because wool buyers need pure color in order to mix their commercial yarns consistently clip after clip. Handspinners enjoy a variety of colors--pure black or pure moorit is certainly fun to spin, but so is gray, musket, spotted, age-grayed solids (my personal favorite), and other mixes. I can't find my reference on the point of black or moorit mixed with white fibers, but it's prevalent even among US Shetland breeders, particularly those who have been breeding Shetlands the longest.

Your experience with "Big White Sheep" is different from mine. At least in NA, BWS are, in fact, generally larger than their colored flockmates. There are definitely some influential breeders over here who select for white, for large, and for fine, not perhaps to the exlusion of all else, but certainly as a high priority, even though it's not commercially viable here (yet?) to brand American Shetland and create a pool of wool that could be processed into yarn enough to sell nationally. Personally, I wouldn't want to try--again because that would tend to enforce standardization on what I regard as a landrace breed, and also because niche marketing specialized products nets a lot more of the sale dollar :)

Robin, I suspect your goals for your Shetlands and mine are nearly the same, except that I welcome different wool types, while your preference is to focus on fine-micron wool. I think many on the list would be interested to hear more about your efforts in that direction--I certainly would like to know about your average adult fleece micron counts, to hear how they compare with mine; what the the range of microns generally is, and whether finer counts are tied to particular colors, or vice versa. But the few textile remains from the Islands that I've read of that date to prior to the 20th century *do* include 'hairy medium' in Ryder's phrase, and I personally find that kind of wool fascinating and useful as well as the merino types. I hope we can agree that it's valid to call both kinds of sheep, if pure-bred, Shetlands :)

To close, I quote the last paragraph from Dr Sponenberg's article, The Need to Conserve Different Types of Shetland Sheep:

"It is important for Shetland sheep breeders to ponder the isssues around the character of the breed, and how much variation is good. It is also important to ponder the mechanism by which the variability can be maintained and not be lost to show ring fashions or fads. All of these issues need to be pondered well before any threat occurs to the breed. ***So much has been lost from so many breeds that it would be a shame for the Shetland breeders to not learn from the mistakes of others.***" (emphasis mine)

Holly
waiting for one doe to kid, and watching 13 lambs and 1 kid run around :)

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