On 6 Jun 2004 at 8:01, dhbailey wrote: > David W. Fenton wrote: > > [snip]> > > Indeed, properly it should be implemented like stylesheets for web > > pages. You can change the entire look of a web page (not just colors > > and fonts) by changing to a different stylesheet. If Finale files > > stored a score layout that defined systems and page layout, and a > > separate part layout, and also allowed you to save individual tweaks > > to particular parts, it would be perfect. > > > [snip] > > Style sheets would be a fantastic addition to Finale! That way we > could create a sort of universal layout for parts that would be like > want it most of the time for one type of part extraction and simply > call that up. I like that concept, IF it would be implemented as you > suggest, like style-sheets for web-pages. Change the setting in the > style-sheet and all parts which were extracted using that style-sheet > would be similarly adjusted the next time they were opened. That > would be terrific, and linking back to the score in that manner would > be fine with me, too. As you say, adding a new block of measures would > be no different in the linked version as it is now without part/score > linking: > We'd still have to rejig the layout of the parts (style sheets > could go a LONG way to making that easier as any new pages added to > the end of existing parts would be setup the same as existing pages, > using the style-sheet settings). But simple note changing, expression > changing, and other alterations but not addition/subtraction would > automatically be reflected in the parts.
Well, you've actually taken it further than what I was thinking, into cascading templates. If you've ever uses Word's templates, they work similarly to the way I described Word styles -- the file inherits the template's settings on creation (because it's a copy of it), but retains a link to its parent, with the ability to pull in changes to the template after the child document has been created (and also the ability to have such changes pulled in automatically). You can also copy individual styles from the child into the template. This is the kind of thing I'd like to see for all the libraries -- the template would be linked to a library, which could be edited separately. Then you could add things to your expressions/articulations within a document that were specific to the document, or you could choose to copy those back into the template, so other files could use the same new definition. > Do you envision this as a menu option (Adjust all linked parts to > reflect changes NOW) or as an automatic option with the concurrent > performance hit as all the parts for the score are altered with each > alteration to the score? I was envisioning the style sheet for layout thing as just applying within a particular file. You'd edit the layouts in your template, then create your new file based on that. Changes to the layout of individual parts based on that original style sheet would then be saved within that file, not in an external stylesheet. The issue here is seeing individual items as specific instances of a class. All FORTE markings are the same thing, but in various contexts, you want individual instances of it to behave differently (apparance, playback, etc.). So, each instance would inherit a set of basic properties derived from the parent object, and then individual instances would have the ability to override those properties selectively (or maybe even add other properties?). > >>I dunno, previous experience? (Lyric Tool, Ossia Tool, Midi Tool, > >>certain aspects of the Repeat Tool, to name a few.) > > > > I didn't use the Lyrics Tool before it's revision, so I don't know > > what was broken. What, specifically, are you speaking of there? > > > > As to the other tools, I don't see any changes in them -- they > > basically behave the way they have as long as I've used Finale. > > These may not have ever changed but that is the point in bringing > these up in answer to your statement concerning why do people > automatically assume new things will be implemented in foolish ways > [not your exact words but I can't remember the exact quote] -- these > are things which were implemented in foolish ways which are quirky to > use and often don't make sense. MakeMusic has proven itself quite > capable of implementing tools in ass-backward ways, which we were just > trying to point out to you as to why we aren't sure these new > suggestions will be properly implemented. But it seems to me that all of your examples go way, way back to the original versions of Finale. Many of the problems are legacies of the original platform's limitations, and of the hardware and software limitations of the time. Yes, I'd agree that all of those tools have problems that would benefit from re-thinking and re-implementing. This is exactly what happened with my two examples of what seem to me to have been successful major overhauls, text handling and page layout. But it seems to me that linked parts, possibly implemented by extending special part extraction, would be the kind of thing that would be a *new* feature for Finale that would make it easier to use than Sibelius. If implemented the way I suggested, in some way that would allow you to store the different layouts for each different part in a single file, you'd be done (yes, I know, that's like saying "And God waved his hand and the universe appeared"). But it would be something that would make Finale vastly easier to use than the alternative, and that's the kind of feature tha Finale needs badly to stop the hemorrhaging of users to Sibelius. > But your style-sheets suggestion (I know, you've made this suggestion > before and it has always intrigued me) is a great one and is one that > I will send to [EMAIL PROTECTED] But as always, suggesting > that it be a user configurable and switchable option. Obviously. I've used Word's cascading templates and cascading styles as the example each time I've described this (and I've been posting about it for more than 5 years), and there, a non-active link to the parent template is maintained, with the ability to update manually or to have updates from the template occur automatically, each time you open the file. I've found Finale's use of templates horridly difficult from the beginning and think that the thinking behind them permeates the design of Finale. If there were just some maintenance of an link back to the parent, and a conduit for (selectively) copying properties from parent to child, many, many things would be much easier in Finale. -- David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associates http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
