Between your two posts, I am beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I played around yesterday with a new score, as an experiment, just adding staves and trying new instruments, and learned quite a bit. I also watched the 24k video blurb on creating a map and got something out of that too. I still have a bunch to learn, but very much appreciate the help found on this forum.

Thanks,

Dean


On Aug 3, 2004, at 5:49 PM, Peter Taylor wrote:

I'd like to echo everything David has said in his very helpful reply. I've also
spent many hours trying to fathom out the seemingly illogical behaviour of
Percussion Maps and David is right, it does seem to come down to luck in the
end. There's a couple of things I would like to add if it helps:


The GM standard reserves Channel 10 for percussion sounds. All the other
channels are "pitched" - that is, each note on the keyboard plays basically the
same sound at a different pitch. Channel 10 is different - each keyboard note
plays a different percussion sound. You can find a chart of these in the
Appendix to the OLD.


The sounds for each of the notes do not correspond to any "normal" method of
notating percussion on the staff, whatever clef you choose. For instance, the
sound for a bass drum, which is "normally" notated in the space below the bottom
staff line, is to be found much lower down. The idea of Finale's Percussion
Maps is to remap the GM sounds to the positions you choose on the staff, but
generally this fails miserably.


You therefore have a choice, whether to try to use the Percussion Map or do
without it. If, like me, you choose the latter, you can either enter the notes
for each sound into the correct place for playback, or if playback is not
important you can enter them directly as you wish to notate and print them out.
I gave up on using percussion maps long ago. I generally enter the notes in
their correct sounding places, save the file as a "playback" version, and then
adjust the note positions to their correct notation and save the file again as a
different version specifically for part extraction and printing. It's quite
quick to do this if you enter different sounds in different layers.


If you do try a Percussion Map, remember that most of the time Finale treats the
staff as though it has a Treble Clef, even though you may have chosen a Bass
Clef entry map (!!!). So the correct sounds are WAY WAY down below the staff.


Best of luck!
Peter


----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean M. Estabrook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Percussion stuff


David:

I found your post to be most helpful, and will experiment with a new
score to see how I and Finale do. Your words have taken a lot of the
mystery out of the topic for me....many thanks.

On Aug 3, 2004, at 3:11 AM, dhbailey wrote:

First thing to check is to be sure that in the Instrument List you
have set the channel for your percussion staff to be channel 10, which
is the GM percussion channel. If you haven't done that, setting it
properly may be all you need. If you HAVE done that and are getting
the wrong sounds for your percussion staff, but are getting percussion
sounds, then you have more work to do.


You should experiment with a new score.

You need to define the notes you are going to use in the percussion
staff.

Using the staff tool, double click the percussion staff and set the
clef you want.  At the bottom of the dialog, under Notation Style
select Percussion and then click the Select... button.

Which of the ones you choose from the following list is entirely up to
you. I generally use the GM entry & Playback. Whichever you select,
you highlight it and then you HAVE to click EDIT. It is in this
dialogue that you can select the note shapes and set the sound for
playback. At this point it is helpful for you to have the list of
your Percussion Channel sounds from your playback module or soundcard.
Otherwise you have to experiment using the Listen... button to define
the Playback Note.


One step that many people forget at this stage is to check the box
that tells Finale to use that note on that staff. In earlier versions
there was only one box and I believe it was near the middle of the
Note Definition panel on the right of the Percussion Map Designer
dialog.  In Fin2004 it is in the bottom panel on the right and there
are some other buttons which allow you to use All Notes, All Named
Notes or None, in addition to the individual check-box which allows
you to define just a few notes for use in any specific staff.

One problem with GM, which is supposed to be a standard, is that
regarding percussion maps each manufacturer or soundbank designer
feels that he/she is above the need to stick to the "standard" GM
percussion map. Sometimes it's because they want to include different
sounds and other times it's because they feel that the sounds should
be reorganized differently from the standard.


Percussion staffs and the Percussion Map Designer are one aspect of
Finale that could definitely use a complete reworking.  Sometimes
after defining a percussion map following all the steps it STILL
doesn't work right.  Sometimes after defining the percussion map
you'll find that all your previously entered notes on that percussion
staff jump to strange new locations.  Sometimes after defining a
percussion map, your percussion staff STILL won't work correctly but
if you create a NEW percussion staff and define it using the SAME
definition, then use mass-mover to copy/paste the percussion notes
from the existing non-working percussion staff to the new, empty
percussion staff, everything works fine.  Sometimes after defining a
percussion staff, even if everything is working properly, when you go
to enter a note on the percussion staff it jumps to a different
location from where you tried to place it.  (This may have been fixed
in Fin2004, I haven't had to create a percussion part in Finale this
year so I don't know.)

Sometimes it's all just plain, pure, simple, old-fashioned luck if the
percussion part works properly for playback. You can do the proper
set of steps one day and it doesn't work only to come back the next
morning and do exactly the same thing and it works. Then the next
day, on a different piece, the same set of steps doesn't work again.


I hope something in my post helps -- I know how frustrating working
with percussion maps in Finale can be!

David H. Bailey



Dean M. Estabrook wrote:

Ok......I'm up and running on  my iMac with OSX.3 and a Roland JV 35
keyboard. All seems to be going well, except.... I'm writing a Band
Piece with a bunch of perc. parts (Snare, Tam, Tam, Sus. cym., Bass
Drum etc. I'm not having any trouble notating  the parts, but,  how
do I get them to playback with the sounds of the chosen instruments?
I've read the Perc. section of the documentation re maps, libraries,
etc., but it somehow doesn't  get through to my brain cells. I
suspect I just don't understand some of the terminology,  which is
not unusual for me, I must admit. I'm a real newbie with the perc.
stuff.
Dean
I err, ergo sum
Dean M. Estabrook
Director of Music
St. Andrew Presbyterian Church
Yuba City, CA
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Dean M. Estabrook
Director of Music
St. Andrew Presbyterian Church
Yuba City, CA

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Director of Music
St. Andrew Presbyterian Church
Yuba City, CA

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