On Dec 30, 2004, at 12:38 PM, Daniel Wolf wrote:
A related question, just out of curiosity (since I have nothing to do with popular music theatre): The Budapest Operetta regularly plays musicals, and plays them with an orchestra of 30 or more players, using sets of parts that are rented from abroad. I understand that the Broadway originals are played with much smaller ensembles, so are such larger orchestrations produced in parallel to the smaller originals, or are smaller originals written to be expanded as resources permit?
Daniel Wolf
Broadway orchestras in which I have played, or have conducted have had about 30 players. It is fairly safe to add more strings to existing orchestrations, but more complicated, problematic and usually unnecessary to double existing wind or percussion parts.
Chuck
Hi, Chuck. This summer will be our 14th annual community musical theater production. Some orchestrations are for what I would call expanded jazz band: 5 saxes doubling woodwinds, 3 trumpets, 2 or 3 trombones, plus 1 to 3 horns, maybe tuba. Then add the rhythm section: keyboard and/or guitar, drum set plus often a 2nd percussionist playing mallets and toys, string bass. And add the strings: violins A & B or A, B & C, maybe violas, maybe cellos. In this case yes, you could add strings, and no, you would NEVER want to double winds.
Others--and this includes virtually all the Rodgers & Hammerstein shows--are for what I'd call chamber orchestra: 2 or 3 violin parts plus violas and cello; around 5-7 orchestral woodwinds with standard orchestral doubles but without sax doubles; around 5-7 brass, always trumpets & trombones, sometimes horns and/or tuba; and rhythm section of piano, guitar, OR harp, drum set plus aux percussion, and string bass.
But the Broadway tradition of "orchestra" or "string section" is very different from that in the orchestral world. I conducted "King & I," and was astounded to learn that, with divisi in the string parts, the string section in the original Broadway pit orchestra was one on a part! Granted, these shows were written for Local 802 musicians with better instruments than most community orchestras boast, and players who know how to draw tone out of their instruements, but the kind of balance between sections taught in orchestration 101 doesn't exit in Broadway pits! (The first time I heard harp used in a Broadway pit I was really impressed by the fact that it added so much music without adding any more noise!)
Finally, for Daniel, we have to differentiate between shows written during different decades, because union contracts changed and matters of performance practice changed. Yes, I'd say that 26-30 is the size of the orchestra in the traditional repertoire, say pre-late-60s/70s. And around 30 is about all the players we can squeeze into the pit of the theater we use. Last summer ("My Fair Lady") we used 8 violins and 2 cellos. There were 3 of us playing viola, and we traded off so there were 2 in the pit for each performance. We could not have fit a single additional person in! (We also had a harpist, but no keyboard; probably took up about the same amount of room, but in a different shape.)
Broadway shows are written for the original run, period. The orchestrator is told how many players the union requires, and would not dare call for any additional players. (The union would love it, but the producer would NOT!) In order to get the most variety of sound (if that's what the show needs), the woodwind books very often include a lot of instrument doubles. Alternative orchestrations, I would imagine, are NEVER prepared because (a) they would cost more for the orchestrator and copyists, and all the money available is going into the production itself, and (b) you never know whether the show will be a success, or even stay open for the entirety of the first run!
But for the shows that HAVE become huge successes and cash cows for the copyright owners, in some cases there have been one or more of the following done at some time during the copyright's lifetime in order to maximize rentals and therefore income: (a) Recopying from the original manuscript parts, either using the music typewriter (when that was the state of the art) or computer engraving; (b) reorchestration for a smaller combo (or rarely for a larger, more "normal" Broadway orchestra); (c) reorchestration for concert band instrumentation (yes, I've seen it offerred!). Several of the shows we've produced offer a choice of orchestrations, although we always go for the traditional orchestration because we're an all-volunteer production. Others have nothing available except the manuscript originals, which have been reprinted ad infinitum.
It's also important to realize that for many, many years, these shows were ferociously protected. They didn't send out touring companies, because they wanted the public to come to NYC to see the "real" productions, which they could completely control, and permitting amateur companies or school companies to produce the shows simply was not done! My father was probably the first high school director in the Pacific Northwest to get permission to produce a high school production of a genuine Broadway musical ("A Connecticut Yank"), when I was still in high school in the early '50s. When the rental materials arrived we were appalled at the poor quality of the manuscript parts, and frustrated by the fact that they sent only one copy of each string book, since we had a regular sized high school string section in our orchestra. (They couldn't provide more, of course, because they didn't HAVE more, and the state of the art in terms of copying at that time was flimsy and smelly Thermo-Fax, or purple Ditto!) It took the Broadway crowd a LONG time to realize the potential of royalties for secondary productions outside NYC, and therefore beyond their ability to control every aspect of the show.
The older shows were often written for about 26 or so, easily expandable in the string department for the purposes of the cast recording, or when the budget allows. The nature of the musical theatre business was that they wouldn't hope to recover their investment until after the show had closed and gone on tour, and had been available for rental for a while, so they intentionally arranged them to be playable with smaller bands by cutting lower instrument parts, just like those dance stocks from the 50's.
Exactly, and we've often dispensed with 3rd trumpet, 2nd or 3rd horn or tuba parts for exactly that reason, although we would have used them if we had the players. Woodwinds are more difficult to leave out. But again, my sense is that the original orchestrations were written for the specific orchestras required at that time, even though a smart orchestrator might have written lower parts as filler just in case the union requirements changed in the future.
Some revivals were re-arranged for smaller orchestras (in these cost-cutting times), and some of those reduced orchestrations are available by rental. I understand that the norm nowadays with all those large Disney productions is to have TWO sets of orchestrations done; one set for 26 or so musicians, to be played for the first few weeks until all the reviews are in and the cast album recorded; the other set cut down to 12 to 16 musicians to be played for the rest of the run. I consider this practice to be highly immoral, akin to the old "bait and switch" tactic used by unscrupulous salesmen.
Christopher
I agree completely. Another trick, although I don't know whether musical theater shows are ever done this way (but I know for a fact that some Contemporary Christian shows and ice shows are because I've sat where I could watch the musicians) is to have the orchestra pre-recorded in such a way that the audio mixist can blend in the sounds of however many live musicians that union local requires. Apparently it's economically viable to do this, even with the cost of the recording sessions, because it's being done. Ballet companies are feeling the pinch, too, big time.
[One of my favorite true stories. In the early 1960s my quartet, "The Four Saints," was playing at The Padded Cell in Minneapolis (a real dive, but we were young and dumb, and working our way up the ladder). The owner also promoted concerts, and since this was the days when folk groups were really hot, he booked the Limelighters for a concert. Enter the AFofM, with a call from the secretary of the local to inform him that the auditorium he had booked had a 12-man minimum, whether they played or not. He argued, and pointed out that the Limelighters were a self-contained trio and were union members themselves, but it did no good. "All right," he finally told the union secretary,"I'll need 12 English horns. Have them there for rehearsal at 1 pm." Since there probably weren't 12 English horns in the state of Minnesota, that was the end of that!]
Which is just to point out that the problem isn't anything new. What to do? "Is" (as the King says) "a puzzlement!"
John
-- John & Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list [email protected] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
