Hi guys,
My 2c on this matter. I teach my students that the ii7 chord that
precedes a V7 is functioning as the V7 with a suspended 4th and the
5th of the V chord in the bass, and that it's part of the dominant
function.
Barry Harris teaches improvisers to ignore "going from ii to V." He
says, "How can you practice ii -Vs? ii and V are the same family,
that's incest!" This he gets from deep understanding of the way
Parker and Powell had to be thinking in order to come up with the
melodic contours in their music - insight he derives from music "fact."
Anytime you name something, you put it in a box, which is a good
thing because it's there to be found the next time you need it, but a
bad thing too, because it usually limits the way you experience the
thing you named.
Just thoughts stimulated by the discussion of subdominant function.
Chuck
On Jul 2, 2005, at 8:01 PM, Harold Owen wrote:
From Christopher:
On Jun 30, 2005, at 6:45 PM, Harold Owen wrote:
For some time I have used the term "pre-dominant" (I think the
hyphen is helpful) for a number of harmonies that can precede the
dominant - N6, A6, V/V, vi, ii, Vo7/V, bVII, etc. (including the
addition of 7ths). The term "subdominant" really should be
restricted to the harmony built on the 4th scale degree.
"Subdominant function" seems messy to me since an authentic
cadence does not require a IV or IV substitute.
Hal Owen
Hal,
Thanks for the clear response.
I see you lump what I would have (reluctantly) called "subdominant
function" under the term "IV substitute." While I have no beef
with the historical accuracy of this term, it seems a bit archaic
when applied to jazz, where the basic cadence is ii-V rather than
IV-V. For that matter, I wish I had a easy-to-spell, -pronounce,
and -understand term that included ALL the chords with a fourth
scale degree but no leading tone, including all the chromatically-
altered ones, and specifically EXCLUDING the dominant-area chords
V7, vii7, viidim7, bII7.
I have applied the term "plagal" to any chord containing the scale
4th but not the leading tone that goes directly to I. I know it is
not in the tradition, where only the IV to I gets that term, but I
think (as David F seems to agree) that the term can be expanded to
include more modern examples.
Please understand that I am NOT trying to change the way
traditional theory is taught - to the contrary, I am trying to
make as many connections between classical and jazz practice as
possible. But in the jazz idiom when, say, a bVII7 to I resolution
is SO much more common than the N6 (which even has its own name!)
but such common chords do NOT have specific names, it motivates me
to come up with some new terms.
Christopher
Dear Christopher,
I'm with you completely. I think classical theory has made too much
of the IV-V-I cadential formula when there are so many other
possibilities owing to the many ways there are to approach the
dominant. Bach, for example, very often uses ii6/5, and in the
Classical Period, the usual cadence involves tonic 6/4-V-I (the
Schenkerians' view of tonic 6/4 as "not a chord" notwithstanding).
The circle of fifths cascading cadence V/V-V-I belongs to late 19th-
early 20th century, including popular musics such as rags and
barbershop quartet harmony - and I would guess that might also
include early jazz and might explain the fact that ii-V-I is so
common in jazz harmony. As I mentioned, I prefer the term "pre-
dominant" to "subdominant function."
It's interesting that you mention the plagal cadence. To me the
modern extension of what might function as plagal would be a chord
that includes the tonic and not the leading tone. Cadences such as
vi-I, bVI-I, A6-I, bVII9-I, and even V11-I (a Debussy favorite)
might be considered as plagal.
Hal
--
Harold Owen
2830 Emerald St., Eugene, OR 97403
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Visit my web site at:
http://uoregon.edu/~hjowen
FAX: (509) 461-3608
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Chuck Israels
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