Point well taken re: Tchaikovsky, but I've usually felt the reason for the bass-clar substitution for the bassoon solo (I'm guessing you reference the end-of-exposition sec of the first movement of the 'Pathetique' - clarinet solo descending and then picked up for the final four notes of the line by bassoon - pppppp) is one of timbre as much as volume.   I find that substitution a little uncomfortable; Tchaikovsky knew exactly what he was doing - the movement begins with that bassoon solo and there's a nice bit of closure to the section by ending it with a (brief) bassoon exposure.    If he had wanted the smooth continuation of clarinet timbre he would have written it.    I really don't think Tchaikovsky was looking for a discernable px6 distinctly audible from a px5 or any other volume delineation; I think he was simply saying "HEY!  Give me the softest, quietest, nearly inaudible sound you can produce!"    I think it was his way of saying ABSOLUTELY the quietest of quietest. 
 
Timp, strings and clarinet in the preceding bars go (variously) from ppp < p > ppp through pppp to ppppp to the bassoon's final pppppp.     His way of writing in one very detailed but subtle decresendo plus possibile.   If my bad French is appropriate.
 
But then, my opinion and nothing more.
 
Best,
 
Les
      
Les Marsden
Founding Music Director and Conductor,
The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra
Music and Mariposa?  Ahhhhh, Paradise!!!
 
http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html
http://www.sierratel.com/mcf/nprc/mso.htm
http://www.geocities.com/~jbenz/lesbio.html
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Finale] 8th = Q


On Feb 15, 2006, at 8:59 AM, Owain Sutton wrote:

>  the use of 'ffff', 'pppp' and beyond.  I've got no problem as a
> performer from using these ... representing extremes of volume beyond
> that normally expected by three-letter indications.
>

The problem is what is "normally expected." In the common practice
period, 6 levels is standard, and some instruments (double reeds, top
and bottom of the flute, etc.) cannot normally even achieve that many.
Writing an fff for bassoon is just ridiculous: many top professionals
will simply give you a forte, and new-music types like me (who don't
care about blasting to get maximum loudness) will give you a plain
fortissimo. An ffff --or a pppp for that matter, would simply be a
waste of ink. Tchaikovsky once wrote a ppppp for a bassoon solo, and
the result is that half the time it is played on a bass clarinet--which
he certainly didn't want.

A word to the wise.

Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/

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