At 6:59 PM -0400 5/7/07, dhbailey wrote:
A properly mic'd and amplified Steinway should sound like a
Steinway, and be very different sounding from a Roland.
But that runs into microphones which cost over $1000 each, and most
live amplification setups which groups like regional orchestras can
afford don't use that sort of equipment, choosing to use a couple or
three Shure SM57 mics.
Actually, in my experience (and I'm perfectly aware that our
experiences may be quite different) the miked Steinway is going to
sound like the speaker stack that is being used. The mics are an
important link in the amplification chain, but not the only link, and
the weakest link in the chain is going to color the sound the most.
And $1000 doesn't even touch the cost of the best studio condenser mics.
At 7:25 PM -0400 5/7/07, Darcy James Argue wrote:
I wlll never understand the anti-amplification fundamentalists.
I don't think we need straw men here. In fact we probably agree to a
large extent. But if you must, start in the classical world. My own
esthetic is pretty simple. Sound reinforcement is not the same as
amplified sound. I know, sounds weird, but here's what I mean.
In many situations the ideal would be to create a properly balanced
and blended acoustic sound. That sound will be perfect for a certain
kind of venue and acoustic, but if it's necessary to perform in too
large or too dead a venue, sound reinforcement may be necessary. The
proper objective would be to raise the overall SPL to fit the room
without destroying the acoustic balance or making it sound amplified.
Another way of looking at it, in a recording studio, is that you
attempt to recreate the acoustic balance even while totally dependent
on electronics to create the final product.
Amplified sound, on the other hand, turns the equation on its head.
The sound engineer (more often than not trained in the recording
studio with rock and country bands) treats the live musicians as if
they were in the studio, wants to have each one of them totally
isolated from all the others, and wants to be the one who decides on
the balance and blend. Yes, that's the pop world in a nutshell, with
acoustic sound treated as nothing but raw material, and DI boxes are
preferred to mics because they isolate the instruments completely.
Like any other aesthetic endeavor, there is good amplification and
bad amplification.
That's what I'm trying to describe, and that's what I suspect we're
in agreement on.
Good amplification is rare, but good anything is rare. Good
amplification can actually allow for a more intimate sound, bringing
the instruments closer to the listener than would otherwise be
possible.
Of course. Good amplification make possible things that are NOT
possible acoustically, no question and no argument. Singers no
longer have to be world class athletes to carry over an opera
orchestra or jazz band. Harmon mutes and flutes can be added--ADDED,
mind you!--to a basic band that grew up playing acoustic and had no
need for mics except for announcements.
I no longer go to our jazz concerts here, for the simple reason that
the SPLs are 'WAY too high and they hurt my ears. There is too much
amplification on EVERYTHING, and it's painful. This is NOT good
amplification, and it's certainly not needed for balance.
At 6:42 PM -0700 5/7/07, Chuck Israels wrote:
Case in point: I write for the Metropole Orchestra so that the
woodwinds and strings are balanced in the room. That is different
from the way almost all the other arrangers do it. Then we play in
reasonable sized halls without microphones (except for the recording
mics), and I get the balance and effect that I want. Fine - until
the 8 measure solo I purposefully wrote for the lead trumpet player
(at a comfortable mf), knowing he is at the back of the band, and
that it will sound slightly distant, is changed by the sound
engineer (in the recording) into an exaggerated, oversized,
up-front, 2 dimensional experience. I don't suppose it makes any
never mind to most listeners, but I wanted the depth and the balance
I conceived.
Bringing it "closer" to the listener did not bring the experience I
tried to design closer, it prevented it from happening.
Yup. Know and respect a sound engineer who understands what you want
and gives it to you. Get rid of the rockers who don't have a clue!
People who like amplified sound are free to choose it, and there is
a lot of political and economic pressure in that direction. (There
are big investments in equipment and people making a living turning
knobs.) But, given the choice, I go for acoustic sound and balance
almost every time.
Strikes me as a pretty reasonable way to approach it, perhaps because
I think in much the same way.
I've been involved in community musical theater for the past 16 years
(on the music side, not the theatrical side). The actors we get
almost all need amplification, and I have no objection to that. A
couple of the battles I've had to fight with overzealous mixists over
the years are the bizarre idea of amplifying their songs but not
their dialog, and the desire to amplify the orchestra, or at least
the strings. My objection to the former is that it call attention to
the reinforcement rather than making it part of the theatrical
illusion. And my attitude toward the latter is that I want to put
together an orchestra that makes the right acoustic sound for the
show, and leave it at that, not fight the singers.
On the other hand I directed a show group at Indiana for 4 years and
one here for 14. Both shows needed amplification in order to achieve
balance, and I had no problem with that. And neither did I the two
summers I directed shows at Disneyland and Walt Disney World. So I'm
sorry Darcy: while I insist that there are good uses for sound
reinforcement, and even for amplification, I also insist that there
are times when only a good acoustic sound will do. That does NOT
make me an anti-amplification fundamentalist, whatever you think that
means.
John
--
John & Susie Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
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