Andrew Stiller wrote:
<There *were* no American symphony orchestras in the mid-late 19th c.except
for the NY Phil and Theodore Thomas's touring outfit.>
And Les replies:
Andrew, with considerable respect, that just isn't the case whatsoever: I
referenced in a previous e-mail symphony orchestras and opera companies
sprouting everywhere the mid-to late 1800's, and that was happening.
Perhaps not in every single case as permanent, fixed,
still-in-existence-to-this-day orchestras, but sure-enough symphony
orchestras. I referenced elsewhere the timeline of today's New York Phil
from its roots in 1842, but even previous to that, there was an unrelated
precedent Philharmonic in New York from 1824 - 1827; in no particular order,
only some of those American symphony orchestras I cite (and this is ONLY a
brief list:) the American premiere of Messiah was given in New York in 1831
with an orchestra; the Brooklyn Philharmonic had sprung up by 1862. The
Chicago Orchestra was in existence by the very early 1890's; the 1869 and
1872 Boston Jubilee concerts of orchestral/choral work; by 1878 Theodore
Thomas had established his orchestra at the Cincinnati College of Music and
was playing a 24-concert annual series - again, in 1878. The Pittsburgh
Orchestra came into being in 1896. Boston Symphony Orchestra in 1881.
But Andrew: even predating the founding of the BSO, the world premiere of
Tchaikovsky's b-minor Piano Concerto took place in Boston....on October 25,
1875.....with a symphony orchestra!
Andrew also said:
<In 1851 Anthony Philip Heinrich, America's most important composer before
the civil war,>
Les offers his opinion: I know a bit of Heinrich's music; in my opinion I
might respectfully offer George Frederick Bristow as a (perhaps) more
important antebellum American composer, and unlike Heinrich: a native-born
one to boot. His 1858 f#-minor symphony, though looking to European
models, is fairly extraordinary for an American, and especially for the
time; while his greatest work (The Oratorio of Daniel) of 1866 is just a tad
bit too late for your criterion, his early and middle works (through the
opus 30's) I feel really establish his credentials. But of course, just my
opinion.
Andrew continued:
<Things had improved somewhat by the 1890s--a part of the continuing,
long-term improvement that I mentioned in my previous posting. Note, however
the key phrase "East Coast" in the quote above. I suspect that even that
would better read "Northeast Coast." Did Tchaikovsky go to Richmond,
Charleston, Atlanta?>
And that snotty Les just had to say: well....the 1890's - and ALL the
advances previously noted in my e-mail you've cited referencing that
decade - are, after all....within the timeline I established of the mid-to
late 19th century, no? And Tchaikovsky did go to Niagara Falls and
Baltimore, at least. Not a lot of time to travel for the homesick old boy.
Les had said: <Caruso's 78s were the greatest-selling recordings by far>
And Andrew noted: <OK, now we're into the 20th c. And the statistic you
give is a slippery one: thousands of musical acts were recorded, most of
them
utterly meritricious-- and Caruso could easily have outsold all the others
without commanding more than a tiny percentage of the total. I don't know
for a fact that this is the case, but I suspect it is.>
Les replies: Welllll.....sure, but your original contention was that there
was little popular dissemination of 'classical' music prior to the 1960's in
this country. I stand by my statement re: Caruso. And here's a real
bombshell: by 1910, (according to Encyclopedia Britannica)
"...In the first years of the 20th century, Victor and its affiliates raised
cultural expectations with its Red Seal series (Red Label in Europe),
particularly with discs made, beginning in 1902, by Enrico Caruso. By 1910
the vast majority of record sales-some estimates are as high as 85
percent-were classical."
And that's one helluva bit of dissemination, no? 85 per cent of record
sales in 1910 were classical? Even if a highball, that's pretty damned
impressive. Even if the opprobrium 'classical' was stretched to include
those things we might today consider pops, still pretty damned impressive.
Andrew - there was a great thirst for 'classical' music and in fact for all
the established fine arts - theatre, literature, the visual arts. And
there was a great combination of altruism, capitalism and philanthropy
aligned to help bring it to the masses of America.
Les Marsden
Founding Music Director and Conductor,
The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra
Music and Mariposa? Ahhhhh, Paradise!!!
http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html
http://www.geocities.com/~jbenz/lesbio.html
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