I second David's comments completely, also
writing from a community band/community orchestra
viewpoint. In fact, in the Holst David cites he
includes careful instructions where to beat 1 to
a bar (in the superimposed 3/4:6/8 sections) and
where to go back to 2 to a bar (everything else).
Interestingly enough, Holst included the same
movement (not note for note, but VERY close) as
the last movement of his St. Paul's Suite for
Strings, which we also played this fall, and it
has the same instructions.
Our band played the Holst under 2 different
conductors this fall. Our own conductor did not
follow those instructions and beat 2 to a bar
throughout, while our guest conductor did change
to follow the instructions (as did a third
conductor with our community string orchestra).
Both approaches worked fine, once the players
understood what was happening.
Jane: If I read your explanation properly, you
are writing in such a way that 1 bar still equals
1 bar, so your problem is with shifting
subdivisions within each bar, right? If I were
writing anything similar, I would probably ask
that the large-scale beat remain constant (as
David suggests), and indicate the shifting note
groupings within each bar through beaming,
slurring, possibly bracketing if necessary, or
perhaps even using articulations to define the
subgroupings. I would probably NOT use different
time signatures within a given bar. Would that
work in your piece?
But David is completely correct. Few (if any)
community bands will attempt the more
rhythmically-complex Stravinsky, let alone music
with overlapping or competing time signatures
that lack a unifying large-scale beat pattern.
You have to understand that we have community
musicians who lack advanced training in complex
music and do their best at a Grade 3 difficulty
level (and in our case we have some--mostly
retired engineers, I'm sad to admit--who simply
can't count rests properly!). In a collegiate
wind ensemble restricted to music majors or
others equally competent, you might actually find
some whose musicianship is as high as the average
6th grader in a good Kodály program in Hungary!!!
Just curious, but were you asked to transcribe
your piece for band by someone who believes that
it will be playable and effective? If so, you
have a great conductor to work with!
John
At 4:21 AM -0500 11/26/08, dhbailey wrote:
Speaking as a conductor of a community band, I
can tell you that if you want more than a couple
of collegiate ensembles to be interested in your
band transcription, don't have that sort of
multiple-time-signatures-at-once.
My band (and my conducting skills) have no
problem with switching between various meters as
long as the relationship is clear to the brain
and the ear. So moving between 3/4, 4/4 and 5/4
is no problem. Moving between various x/8
meters is no problem. Trying to have some of
the band play in x/8 while others are playing in
x/4 simply won't work for any but the most
advanced (read that as military or
collegiate/conservatory) ensembles. We can
handle the 3/4 vs 6/8 of Holst's Fantasy on the
Dargason (final movement of the Second Suite in
F for Military Band) but in that case one
measure of one meter equals one measure of the
other meter so beat 1 always lines up
(intellectually and visually and aurally).
Anything else will be too complex for
once-a-week-rehearsal groups to master.
Good luck!
David
Jane Frasier wrote:
No.
Here is the other challenge. I am transcribing my piano sonata for band.
There are sections of this where the left hand is playing a waltz type
pattern but switching from 3/4 to 5/4 to 4/4, etc. The melody in the right
hand is written as 6/8, 10/8, 8/8 with various groups of 2 or 3 eighth
notes. I think this works ok for piano, but
what will the conductor do with
this? I think it should be one of the other but I am not sure which meters
would be easier to conduct and follow.
Any ideas?
Jane
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A Balkan folk-dance beat, perhaps? :)
ajr
I am using Finale 2008 on Mac, OS 10.5.5.
I want a time signature to say 8/8 but I want it beamed 3+3+2. I created
a composite time signal of 3+3+2/8+8+8 and then a different time
signature 8/8 to display. When I put in the notes all the eighth notes
have separate stems -- no beams. I tried rebeaming according to time
signature and got the same result.
What am I missing?
Thanks so much.
Jane
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John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
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"We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition
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