On Sep 16, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Patrick Sheehan wrote: > Someone mentioned that the Treble8 clef for tenors much like a transposing > instrument. Correct! In this sense, the tenors are reading treble clef > notes but what's coming out of their throat is an octave lower, plus they > have to think that way too. What sense does that make?!
It makes a lot of sense. When you tell men, "sing the same tune as the women", they instinctively sing it an octave lower. It doesn't feel like transposing, it feels natural. In opera and musical theater it frequently occurs that male and female parts are singing together in unison. Your proposed convention of males always in bass clef would require an extra staff for any of these. > But, I could go on and on about practicality. There are several > other notational concepts that I despise, but I'd keep you here until the > apocalypse. I'm no defender of convention. I'm all for doing things in new ways, and like you I have my own peeves that I think should be reformed. I just don't agree on this one. I think that writing for tenors only in bass clef causes a lot of problems and is very little help at all. > All male voice parts should be written in bass clef, no exception. This > tells you the differentiation between female and male parts at first sight > (and eventually, all "sights."). Parts should be clearly labeled. If there's a case where there's unintended confusion about whether it is male or female then that's just sloppy. But sometimes the ambiguity is deliberate. There are lots of and lots of songs which can be sung by either male or female voice, using whichever octave is appropriate. Do you insist on separate editions, one for male and one for female? What about a couplets number in operetta where a male character sings one verse and a female character sings another, must these be written out separately? > The fact is: I've taken a poll with all male vocalists and > asked them what they would prefer to always see, and they prefer bass clef; > they say that treble is confusing and it messes with their eye's ear. The > same goes for adults. I'm curious what your poll sample is. I've worked with thousands of singers, ranging from amateur choristers to professional soloists, and I've found no such consensus. Men who sing only tenor tend to dislike the bass clef. I can remember a specific instance with an amateur opera chorus where the unison part was in two staves hymnbook style. When a few of the tenors complained about having to read bass clef, I pointed out that since it's unison they can just read the women's clef instead, and that made them happy. For men who sing "middle" and thus are often switched back and forth between bass and tenor, my sense is there is a slight preference for 8vb clef but they are fine with both. Overwhelmingly, people like what they are used to. If your sample strongly prefers the bass clef, I can only guess they have lots of experience with hymnbook style choral writing. > I think that where things are getting lost and > mis-practiced are with publishers, which is why I don't go through > publishers. Their editors wreak havoc on an original layout / work. It's a > harsh truth, but it's the truth nonetheless. If you aren't constrained by publishers, you should absolutely write things however you prefer. That's my feeling for all proposed reforms, not just bass clefs for tenors. The most important thing is communicating the music. If you think you have a better way which is enough of an improvement to overcome tradition, then give it a try. Let real-world experience be the test for what work and what doesn't. If your way really is better, then maybe others will follow your lead. (But in this case, I for one will not.) mdl _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
