I would agree with Darcy that there is certainly a market for the last x% of engraving sophistication. It seems to me the first step is for a program to provide that at least as a manual option, and I think Sib and Fin are positioned well to provide it if one or the other would but make it a priority. I can't speak knowledgeably about Sib, but Fin really only needs to add a few fairly straightforward features to get most of the way there (for producing it *manually*).
Of course if a new product came out that magically did it all automatically, I would not object, but I remain deeply skeptical that such a program will see the light of day. The task seems like it would require a big-data driven A.I. running on Google-sized hardware, and the Steinberg project does not seem like that to me. From my perspective it seems like reliably automating the last percent would require algorithmic complexity on the order, at least, of self-driving cars. But the most ominous issue to me is that the Steinberg project has burned money for two years and (by their own admission) is nowhere close to delivering a product. How much longer can/will Steinberg burn before they pull the plug? I doubt their engineers are working for free. I've worked on quite a number of software projects, including three or four that were "from scratch". From-scratch projects seem like the most likely to fail if my experience is any guide, and the only one I worked on that succeeded did so only because it Could Not Fail. (Meaning, it had to be delivered by a date certain no matter the cost.) Nothing I've heard about the Steinberg project suggests to me that they have that urgency. Meanwhile, the StaffPad folks have invented something cool that can play with the established players and bring something useful to the table. It's exactly the way you get your foot in the door with software. And it doesn't hurt that it is a killer-app for the Surface Pro. Microsoft has been starved of coolness for quite awhile, so the little guys at StaffPad will get a boost from the Microsoft behemoth. (I only hope MS doesn't buy them before they've iterated through a few improvement cycles, because if MS buys them, the innovation will grind to a crawl.) On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Darcy James Argue <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Craig, > > I think you will find a lot of people on this list who disagree with you > about the desirability of "capturing that last 1% of engraving > sophistication." (Starting with whether it is actually 1% or more like 10% > or more.) To give but one example, having an application that could apply > something like Patterson Beams by default, without having to invoke a > plug-in, would be hugely attractive to me and to a great many other people. > > The fact is that the quality of music notation generated by the average > user of Finale or Sibelius is still extremely poor. Having music notation > software that was designed from the ground up to quietly guide the novice > user towards more professional-looking results, while also allowing > experienced engravers room to customize, would be incredibly advantageous. > > I've had the opportunity to try StaffPad briefly, and while I agree it is > extremely impressive, it's not remotely an engraving tool. It's an input > tool. It certainly meets the needs of lots of people who only require an > input tool. But IMO there is still plenty of room in the market for a > serious engraving tool. At least, I hope there is! > > Cheers, > > - DJA > ----- > WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org > > On May 12, 2015, at 1:39 AM, Craig Parmerlee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On 5/9/2015 9:26 AM, David H. Bailey wrote: > >> Please excuse the cross posting and apologies to those who will receive > >> this update to my previous StaffPad review multiple times. > >> > >> I know that for users of Sibelius and Finale, regular updates of the > >> software are very important and in recent years have been less than > >> overwhelming as corporate politics and financial problems have gotten in > >> the way of offering real improvements to the software. > > > > Thanks for these updates. The speed of their execution is most > impressive. > > > > Several days ago, I listened to this extensive interview with Daniel > > Spreadbury. > > https://youtu.be/VBhPyTNkXKI > > > > My take-aways were: > > > > 1) This effort is still years from producing a commercial product. They > > don't have much of a GUI at present, for example. > > > > 2) The Steinberg team seems totally obsessed with the finest intricacies > > of extreme engraving, and doesn't seem to care nearly as much about > > things like improved playback and integration with the rest of the > > modern musician's workflow. > > > > I have nothing against somebody trying to reach the karma of engraving, > > but I must admit I don't find that of much practical use. Some of their > > ideas would be broadly usable, such as more of a rules-based approach to > > how rhythms are notated. But I was left with a feeling that this is an > > enormous amount of effort to put into a program that endeavors to > > capture that "last 1 percent of engraving sophistication". I would have > > thought there are very few people in the world that would be heavily > > motivated by that last 1% -- probably fewer than 1000 copyists. > > > > Of course, if the Steinberg program advances notation that last 1% AND > > also does many other things better, then it will be of interest. But it > > is hard for me to reconcile the scope of the Steinberg effort with the > > very impressive delivery of Staffpad function by what appears to be a > > much smaller team over a much shorter time period. > > > > I realize these are apples and oranges, but nonetheless, Staffpad is the > > most impressive thing I have seen in the field in a decade. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Finale mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > > [email protected] > > > _______________________________________________ > Finale mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > [email protected] > _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list [email protected] https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: [email protected]
