From:   Don Williams

Massad Ayoob discusses "citizen's arrest"  and assisting the police in
several chapters in his book "In the Gravest Extreme".    My understanding
of his major points is as follows:

a) In Chapter 2 "Self Defense and Lethal Force" , he makes the point that it
is dangerous for laymen to read law statutes in isolation --that the law
governing
 deadly force has subtle contexts which even trained policemen can have
trouble
 keeping straight.

b) On page 10 of his book, Ayoob gives, as an example, a state statute
justifying homicide
by a civilian for the following case:  "when committed in attempting, by
lawful ways and means,
to apprehend any person for any felony committed, or in lawfully suppressing
any riot, or in
keeping and preserving the peace."

Here, Ayoob notes that the hook is the phrase "by lawful ways and means".
An armed criminal who has
just killed several people and who is an obvious danger to the community may
be treated one way --
but shooting an unarmed burglar in the back after the burglar has left your
home and is running down
the street is likely to get you in trouble.

c) Even if an argument can be made that you have the right to use lethal
force to stop a felony, that
right ends AFTER the fact of the felony.  Shooting a criminal AFTER a crime
has been committed
is either to avenge or to punish the crime.  No individual has that right.

d) In Chapter 3 (p.27) Ayoob notes that you may use lethal force in the
course of making a citizen's
arrest only (1) under the direction of, and at the express command, of a
sworn law enforcement officer
or (2) when, in the course of assisting an officer, the citizen is faced
with a grave and immediate threat
that would justify use of killing force for self defense anyway

e) Re case d(1), Ayoob notes that cops aren't used to working with untrained
civilians and that
a civilian can get in a lot of trouble if he misunderstands the cop he's
assisting.  An example he gives
is when a suspect flees, the cop yells "Get him!! ", the civilian shoots the
fleeing suspect in the back, and the cop says "My god, I didn't tell you to
SHOOT him!".  If the dead suspect is unarmed, the cop may be reluctant to
make his department look bad by supporting the civilian's story.  If ,
what's worse, the person shot was not even the person who committed the
crime but an innocent bystander trying to get away from a violent scene,
then the situation is even worse.

f) Finally, support officers racing in to assist may see you holding a gun,
mistake you for the bad guy, and shoot you.  Especially if you mistakenly
point the gun at them as you turn to greet them.

g) Finally, legal protection offered to a civilian who is assisting an
officer goes into effect only if
the officer explicitly asks for assistance.

h) In spite of the above, if a police officer asks for your assistance , you
MUST comply, on pain of being convicted of obstruction of justice.

i) In Chapter 4 ("Samaritans with Guns"), Ayoob notes the danger of trying
to protect others by
using a firearm.  He approves of the motive behind such help, but notes some
potential dangers.
For one thing, it can hard for someone arriving late at a scene to tell who
is the victim and who is
the guilty party.   Someone who appears to be a violent criminal may in
reality be a terrified victim who
 was threatened by a mugger with a knife,  who turned the tables on the
mugger, kicked the mugger's head
in panic, and is running away by instinct.
--------------------------

2) I would like to note in passing that I approve of citizens owning guns
for self defense.   I have owned
guns for over 32 years.   But I think there is a lot more to self defense
than simply buying  a gun.
I feel very lucky that I did not get into a confrontation when I was young
and too immature to consider
 legal constraints, possible scenarios, and the multiple possibilities for
error.   Or to realize the need for a
rapid decision tree in a high stress situation.  I could very well have went
to prison for 20 years for a mistake --or been killed because I hesitated
due to uncertainty over what I was allowed to do.   In spite
of the above , however, I feel that an unarmed man who cannot defend his
family against an
intruder -- or his fellow citizens caught in a mass murderer's assault -- is
in a far more blameworthy situation.
  I also feel that citizens can learn to use judgement and lethal force in
carefully defined situations.  They simply
need to be made better aware of the need for tactical and legal training.


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