Title: Message
    The original quote is that you can't *falsely* yell fire in a crowded theater.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Guy Smith
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 9:30 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Peas in a pod?

I've always found the "can't yell fire in a crowded theater" argument to be a false one, and invalid on most fronts.
  1. First, you can yell "fire" in a crowded theater . . . if it is part of the play, or if there is an actual fire, or if doing so is part of audience participation, or if you lease the theater for private purposes and warn everyone about what you intend to do. 
  2. Given the above, what the "fire principle" actually details is the prohibition of "endangering behavior".  When one exercises a reserved right in a manor that deprives others of their rights (such as the right to life being squashed by a stampeding audience), then the conflict of rights must be resolved.
  3. The comparison breaks down further when it is noted that the "yelling fire" prohibition requires the act to be committed first, whereas most gun control legislation creates prohibitions or bureaucratic hoop-jumping exercises in advance of an endangering act . . . that might never happen. 
Let's reverse the process by taking common gun control legislation (proposed and current) and applying the same principles to producing a play:
  1. Before a playhouse can be rented, the producer would have to document their ability to put on a play without any member of the audience yelling "fire".  This would included formal training in selected speech controls and mob management techniques. (training requirements before getting a firearm permit)
  2. The producer would have to be finger printed, photographed, and a criminal background check made to prove (s)he has never allowed an audience member to yell "fire" before. (registration and background of permit holder)
  3. The producer would have to apply for and purchase a license for each showing of their play (licensing for each firearm) and be allowed only to perform the play once a month to reduce the likelihood of someone yelling "fire".  (one gun a month laws)
  4. Certain plays would be forbidden because they might be more likely to encourage audience members to yell "fire". (assault weapons bans)
  5. Audience members would be issued gags as they entered the theater, and the producer would be required to assure the gags were worn by each member of the audience. (gun lock laws)
  6. Each audience member would be locked into a soundproof box during the performance so if they did yell "fire", nobody would be frightened by it. (safe storage laws)
  7. If someone in the audience did yell fire, the government could sue the playwright for negligence. (fast fading spate of city suits against gun manufactures)
The notion of "reasonable regulation" fails several tests, but one in particular -- a reserved right can not be regulated in advance.  Substantial preemption or delay of a right is as good as denying the right.  If the equivalent of gun control laws were inflicted on the First Amendment, the ACLU would no doubt raise a mighty stink -- which makes their silence on 2nd Amendment abuses so gravely sad.
 
-----------------
Guy Smith
Author, Gun Facts
www.GunFacts.info
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Joseph E. Olson
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 8:14 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Peas in a pod?

1. "The broad principle that there is an individual right to bear arms is shared by many Americans, including myself. I'm of the view that you can't take a broad approach to other rights, such as First Amendment rights, and then interpret the Second Amendment so narrowly that it could fit in a thimble. But I'm also of the view that there are limits on those rights. Just as you can't falsely shout fire in a crowded movie theater, you can put restrictions on who can own guns and how, when, and where they may be possessed."

___ Sen. Charles Schumer
 
 
2. "While some have argued that the Second Amendment guarantees only a 'collective' right of the States to maintain militias, I believe the Amendment's plain meaning and original intent prove otherwise. Like the First and Fourth Amendments, the Second Amendment protects the rights of 'the people,' which the Supreme Court has noted is a term of art that should be interpreted consistently throughout the Bill of Rights. ... Of course, the individual rights view of the Second Amendment does not prohibit Congress from enacting laws restricting firearms ownership for compelling state interests ... just as the First Amendment does not prohibit [government from legislating against] shouting 'fire' in a crowded movie theater. "

___ Attorney General John Ashcroft
 
 
Second Amendment "pragamatists" can be switch-hitters.
 
******************************************
Professor Joseph Olson; J.D., LL.M.  
Hamline University School of Law
St. Paul, Minnesota   55104-1284
tel.    (651) 523-2142
fax.   (651) 523-2236
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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