The amount of anger that some people just amazes me.
If someone were able to go through an interview process and show up on the
job with a "firewalls for dummies book" it sounds to me like they read a
fresh copy of "Interviewing with clients for dummies" but the interviewer
needs to read a copy of "Interviewing Consultants for dummies".
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: Drennan, Richard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, May 07, 1999 11:13 AM
To: 'Peter Capelli'; 'Eric'
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: marketing hype
I can't believe what I am reading here. What kind of spitting match
is
this.
If a person admits the fact that he/she is not a guru or even has
limited
experience in a certain area it sounds like your ready to lynch
them.
>
> Eric Johnson wrote:
For example, If you sold yourself to me as a security
expert, I
hired you, and you showed up for the first day of work with a copy
of
"Firewalls for Dummies", you'd be out of there! And yes, I'd
seriously
consider civil charges for misrepresentation.
I don't know what world your from, but from my 15 years of
experience
dealing with military and federal agencies, I know that more than
50% of the
time I'm hired to accomplish a task, the client usually comes back
to me
with requests that I don't have much experience with. They either
don't
have the funds to hire a "expert" in the field (of which I find the
so
called experts are usually below my limited level) or they
specifically want
myself or another member of my team due to their comfortablility
level with
the personnel. I highly doubt anyone would walk in with a "firewall
for
dummies" book after accepting such a highly skilled task. As for
the
reasons why the customers want a certain person to work on a
particular
project, whether or not he/she has the proper experience is NOT for
you nor
I to decide. As for civil charges, good luck. I think you need a
reality
check when you slam someone who is asking a serious question and
your focus
is on their skill sets. I think ego may play a big role in this
don't you?
Richard Drennan
Systems Engineer
NAVEODTECHDIV
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Capelli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 1999 1:44 PM
To: 'Eric'
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: marketing hype
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 1999 1:39 AM
> To: Peter Capelli
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: marketing hype
>
>
> Peter Capelli wrote:
> > I think that you are doing your clients a grave disservice by
making
> > recommendations about products and technologies with which you
have
> > limited experience. Your best bet is to refer your clients
> to another
> > firm that knows what they are doing. Best case, this is
> bad judgement.
> > Worst case, outright fraud.
>
> Nonsense. The only way fraud would come into the picture if he
made
> bogus representations to the clients that were untrue. There is
no
> indication that he has done so.
Bogus representations like, say, that he (or she) was a security
expert?
He was asked to be a security expert. He said that he wasn't, but
he
would take his clients money to make a recommendation. If I pay for
a
security expert (or any other expert) to come in and help me, they
better know something about security!
>
> As far as bad judgement? Only if it is clear that he is not up to
the
> task. And that does not appear to be the case.
In the original message, he said he had no experience except that of
fw
installation.
>
> Have you ever been a consultant? I was one for several years.
One
> of the more interesting parts of the job was that I was constantly
> called on to do things that I had never done before. I learned a
> hell of a lot keeping up with the demands of the job -- far more
than
> if I'd sat back and refused to try to extend myself. The
customers
> came out ahead, too, and they appreciated it.
This is true in a limited sense. You would not have been
hired
if you didn't know what you were doing. You need a base set of
knowledge to do the job. As new requirements come up, new
technologies
and techniques must be learned, I admit. But not on the customers
clock! You, when you were a consultant, should have been constantly
keeping up with new trends and technologies *on your own time*.
That's
why people pay you! No ramp up time to learn new things, with no
real
world experience to back it up. Now obviously, you can't know
*everything*, so of course some learning goes on at the customer
site.
But not all!
For example, If you sold yourself to me as a security
expert, I
hired you, and you showed up for the first day of work with a copy
of
"Firewalls for Dummies", you'd be out of there! And yes, I'd
seriously
consider civil charges for misrepresentation.
>
> Eric Johnson
>
Pete Capelli - NSEC - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary safety
deserve
neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin, 1759
PGP Key ID:3AD72805
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