Eric wrote:

> Can anyone explain this?
>
> I do some work for my brother's company part time (if you can
> call 40-80 hours a week part time while working on a doctorate).
> While I'm at Texas A&M, I have to telecommute to install
> software, maintain the network, ... .  Yesterday, he had someone
> come in and install some new equipment and change the ip addresses
> to a new C block.
>
> So far so good.
>
> First, the guy couldn't find the dns on the dns server.  So he
> decided it wasn't there and added another.  Now, there are two
> dns servers running.  The original is an NT port of bind.  The
> new one is Microsoft's dns server.  Now, it seems that if I connect
> to the dns server and do a ls -d example.com (for reasons that
> are obvious later, I don't want to mention the actual domain
> name), I get the new ip addresses.  But if I look up specific
> hosts, including those that the installer did not transfer to the new
> dns server, I get the old ip addresses!  So it certainly appears
> that both dns servers are running.  I suspected that this
> was going to happen and specifically looked for it since I figured
> that if someone can't find the dns software that has been running
> fine for quite a while without any problems and then installs
> another dns server, he is not likely to shut down the original
> dns server.
>
> But that really doesn't matter.  They apparently didn't wait
> for a confirmation message before shutting it down and switching
> everything over.  So the confirmation message they need to respond
> to is probably undeliverable and no longer exists.  As a result,
> the records identify the old dns ip address, not the new one.  I'm
> not sure how long this will take to fix.  My brother is under the
> impression that he can just call them up on the telephone and they'll
> do it for him while he waits.
>
> I had the system set up using the router as a first level of
> protection and an internal firewall to protect the internal
> network.  Between them are the e-mail, dns, and web servers.
> Even a 5 hour denial of service attack on December 26/27
> (something like 10 pm to 3 am) didn't cause much problems
> because the router refused to pass the packets through.  But
> the installer pronounced it very insecure (offering no protection
> at all), removed the access lists when reconfiguring the router,
> and then announced that now it is secure.  (It should be obvious
> why I  didn't mention the domain names and ip addresses now.)  This
> "expert" said that noone uses access lists on routers!
>
> Also, I run my own smtp server for my own use with a fixed address
> on that domain running pptp.  They deinstalled RAS (they said
> it was very, very insecure!) so now I can't do that.  I had to
> resubscribe to every mailing list with my tamu.edu address.
>
> In spite of the fact that they proclaimed RAS as too insecure
> to reside on a web server (where I need it for the work I do)
> and removed it, they decided that RAS is secure enough to
> install on the firewall where a breach could expose the entire
> internal network!  So during spring break, they want me to drive
> up and install RAS on the firewall.  It is not very often that I
> need or want access to the internal network.
>
> Thus, they told me not to change anything on the web servers,
> the mail server, and the dns server and they have removed any
> possibility that I can fix any problems without driving 600
> miles each direction.  And, since the guy that did the installation
> now has a contract to maintain the equipment, even if I drive up
> there, there's not much that I can do.
>
> Some of the things I did was to disallow all incoming traffic that
> we didn't need.  For example, all port 137, 138, and 139 access
> was blocked at the router.  (The company is also an ISP and has
> dialup lines between the router and the firewall.)  All incoming
> connections to the firewall were completely disallowed -- the
> only incoming traffic allowed was established connections.  And all
> nonroutable addresses and obviously fake packets were dropped.  Of
> course, now there is no restrictions on the traffic at all.
>
> On the other hand, since I now don't have to worry about making
> sure the system is running smoothly without anyone breaking in,
> and since I can't install or support any web software I write,
> I can spend more time on robotics and get my doctorate quicker.
>
> So my questions are:
>
>  1) So how frequent is it to use access lists on routers to
>     as a first level of security?  My impression is that it is
>     not uncommon.  The only problem with access lists that I
>     know of is that they slow everything down a bit.  But I
>     considered that preferrable to leaving it wide open.  (An
>     outer firewall was not an option.)

Very common.  It's the easyest and generally the first line of defence
people use.  Though alone they can be circumvented.  Have a look at
"firewalk" for more information.
http://packetstorm.securify.com/UNIX/audit/firewalk/
If it's the border to the DMZ then make sure the servers in the DMZ are
hardened.  Basic filters can't protect you against content based
attacks.


>
>
>  2) Why would anyone think that Microsoft's RAS is too insecure
>     to run on a web server but not too insecure to run on the
>     firewall to the internal network?
>

RAS should realy be on it's own server.  If that's not possible then it
should be on a box with as few (i.e. NO) services exposed to the net.
It's just a case of best practice.  In this case they seem to have
chosen a box that only has ports open to the inside (i.e the RAS service
is not outwardly exposed).  I would always avoid running services of any
kind on a firewall.  It should trust no-one and be trusted by on-one.

>
>  3) Why would using access lists on a firewall be "less secure"
>     than not running access lists?  For that matter, why would
>     anyone not use access lists on the router itself to keep
>     everyone in the world from connecting to it?
>

Absolutly no reason at all, these guy's sound a bit stupid. If you have
a drawbridge then use it!

>
>  4) Why would anyone allow finger to run on a router unless access
>     was sharply limited?
>

In the good old innocent days it was a useful service.  These days it's
asking for trouble.

>
>  5) Am I correct in my guess that two dns servers are running?
>     Is it possible for one dns server to handle one kind of
>     query and another dns server to handle another?
>

No idea, but given their approach to filters you might want to revert to
what you trust.

>
>  6) Any suggestions on how to handle this?  Should I just not worry
>     about it and wait until it all blows up?  (I'm 46, that brother
>     is 58 or so and when he decides not to listen, there is little
>     or no way to do anything about it.)

If he's your brother then maybe he won't sue you for breaking in and
leaving a Post-It ... On the inside of his screen!


>
>
> Eric Johnson
> -
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Tom


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