Found some info on the MS VPN plans and it looks like
MS is offering the L2TP/IPSec VPN client in 9x/NT.
Currently in beta... 

www.microsoft.com/VPN

If this goes in automatically with 98/NT patches or
service packs, the client sw issue disappears.

The PPP/L2TP over IPSec doesn't bother me because it
allows for internal and external access to be
identical. As long as IPSec is the security mechanism.

In short, I think it is now very possible to provide
simple internal and external access to a secure data
center.

The one remaining question is around single sign-on.
Given that users are securely authenticated into the
data center and maybe even authorized to access
specific servers/services, is it possible to tie in
application level auth?

Eric

--- Ben Nagy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf
> Of Eric E. Bomarsi
> > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 12:03 PM
> > To: Ben Nagy; 'Firewall-List'
> > Subject: RE: User AAA into a Secure Data Center
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks Ben:
> > 
> > Being an IPSec fan, I like this approach. When I
> last
> > looked at this, it was slow and the deployment was
> > difficult because it typically required client SW
> > and deployment of client certs.
> 
> The client SW is the big issue, yes. Windows 2000
> makes things simple
> with the IPSec folded in, although it uses a
> hybridised Kerberos thing
> for the station-level auth. For unix-style Oses I'm
> sure you can knock
> up a transparent solution fairly easily, but for
> 95/98/NT/ME etc you'll
> probably be looking at client-side software. I have
> no idea what MacOS
> is doing, but I suspect that OS9 would need a
> software client. I don't
> grok Novell at all, really, but its days as a
> desktop OS are long gone.
> 
> That's the major sticking point, IMO.
> 
> > The 100Mbps crypto
> > NICs from Intel and 3Com are cheap, the OS's have
> > native IPSec in the stack and it's easy to config,
> 
> > and the IPSec RA group is proposing solutions for
> IP
> > client config and an alternative to client certs
> which
> > would use legacy auth.
> 
> I'm still not sure about the RA type scenario for
> local LAN access. Call
> me crazy, but I think that the L2TP over IPSec is
> the most elegant
> solution - you can use any authentication that you'd
> use with PPP (ie
> anything), and L2TP is standard and well understood.
> IKE isn't really
> made to accommodate user-auth, and I kind of agree
> with the WG that it
> should ideally stay that way. Having said that, I
> suspect that there
> will be an Xauth type hook in IKEv2 somewhere.
> 
> > 
> > > I've been
> > > advocating internal IPSec for years.
> > 
> > Has anyone deployed it? Any issues? Successes?
> 
> Sadly not. I've had proof-of-concept networks with
> Win2K and Cisco
> (random "other IPSec implementation") interop and 
> I've had the Windows
> CA working for cert enrollment for non-windows
> devices. What I haven't
> done in the lab is a convincing POC for user-based
> auth onto a third
> party VPN gateway using only native IPSec software
> with a cert-based or
> RADIUS based auth backend. Doing that with the
> client software is
> trivial, but I don't think it would be "good" for
> most internal LANs.
> I'm sure someone else has done it, though...
> 
> In real life, all the networks that would look at
> the idea seriously
> were underwhelmed by the recommendation to ditch all
> their crappy 98 PCs
> and go to 2000, or install software on each client.
> Given that having
> 95/98 PCs on the network pretty much blows away the
> station level
> security, it therefore made no sense to beef up the
> network layers.
> 
> Your issue here is a little different, though. You
> only need IPSec for
> those users who must have access to some Special
> Thing. It would be much
> easier to write a business case for Special Thing
> Users than the whole
> LAN.
> 
> > 
> > > As we all know, Microsoft is now favouring IPSec
> > > throughout the LAN,
> > 
> > Do you have any pointers to MS info describing
> this?
> 
> Not specifically, sorry, but building it into the OS
> and having the
> security policy to use it as one of the template
> options is a fairly
> strong hint, I think.
> 
> > Thanks,
> > Eric Bomarsi
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> --
> Ben Nagy
> Network Security Specialist
> Mb: +61 414 411 520  PGP Key ID: 0x1A86E304 
> 


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