I read Pedro's post differently. What definition of meaning are you
using exactly?
I was going to express agreement with Pedro too, but I do not agree
with either Soren of Christophe's interpretation of Pedro's posting.
Can Pedro clarify? And can we be more precise in what we mean when we
use the term "meaning?"
With respect,
Steven
--
Dr. Steven Ericsson-Zenith
Institute for Advanced Science & Engineering
http://iase.info
http://senses.info
On Oct 4, 2007, at 3:38 PM, Christophe Menant wrote:
Dear Soren,
I agree with your reading of Pedro’s proposal as to start with
cellular meaning, and then go thru the higher levels of evolution.
It has the advantage of beginning with the simplest case and then
look at more complex ones. See (1) for a corresponding approach.
But I’m afraid I disagree with your point regarding first person
consciousness as not representing anything real, as just being a
bio-cultural artefact as you say. I take human consciousness as
being a reality resulting from an evolution of representations. But
this is not our today subject.
Coming back to it, Walter Riofrio, (New FIS member) has an
interesting approach to the notion of meaning where he groups
together the emergence of autonomy, function and meaning (2). I
understand his work as associating inside a system a meaningful
information with a function that needs it in order to use it, in a
background of autonomy. Such evolutionary link between meaningful
information and function looks as an interesting tool.
All the best
Christophe
(1) - Short paper: http://crmenant.free.fr/ResUK/index.HTM
- Full paper: http://www.mdpi.org/entropy/papers/e5020193.pdf
(2) http://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00114521/en/
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 22:13:27 +0200
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: SV: [Fis] info & meaning
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; fis@listas.unizar.es
>
> Dear Pedro
>
> Do I understand you right when I see your models as:
>
> 1. There is no meaning in inanimate nature.
> 2. Meaning is constructed on a first level by life in the form of
single
> cell life forms.
> 3. Second level is (chemical) communication between cells.
> 4. Third level is multicellular organisms as species with a gene
pool.
> 5. Fifth level is their communication.
> 6. Sixth level human construction of meaning in 'life worlds'.
>
> But there is no object of meaning in itself. Energy and mathematical
> information are the basic reality. First person meaningful
consciousness is
> a bio-cultural artifact useful for the construction of life and
culture, but
> it is not an image of anything real.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Søren
>
>
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:fis-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] På
> vegne af Pedro Marijuan
> Sendt: 4. oktober 2007 14:23
> Til: fis@listas.unizar.es
> Emne: Re: [Fis] info & meaning
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> What if meaning is equivalent to "zero"?
>
> I mean, if we backtrack to the origins of zero, we find those
obscure
> philosophers related to Buddhism in India, many centuries ago
(Brahmagupta,
> 600 ad). It was something difficult to grasp, rather bizarre, the
fruit of
> quite a long and winding thought, and frankly not of much
practicity. Then
> after not many developments during a few centuries, another
scholar in
> central Asia (al-Kwarismi) took the idea and was able to
algorithmize the
> basic arithmetic operations. Mathematics could fly... and
nowadays any
> school children learns and uses arithmetics & algebra so easily.
>
> The idea is that if we strictly identify (we "zero" on) meaning as a
> biological construct, work it rigorously for the living cell as a
tough
> problem of systems biology (and not as a flamboyant autopoiectic or
> autogenic or selftranscence doctrines of Brahmaguptian style),
then we work
> for a parallel enactive action/perception approach in
neuroscience, and
> besides pen a rigorous view in social-economic setting under similar
> guidelines --and also find the commonalities with quantum
computing and
> information physics... finally information science will fly.
>
> Otherwise, if we remain working towards the other direction, the
> undergrounds of zero downwards, we will get confined into bizarre,
> voluminous, useless discussions & doctrines on information.
Cellular meaning
> is our zero concept: we should go for it.
>
> best
>
> Pedro
>
>
>
>
>
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http://iase.info
http://senses.info
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