On 27-Sep-07, at 2:58 PM, Stanley N. Salthe wrote:
(2) I use entropy production as the general key here because whatever
happens produces entropy, and all configurations will constrain this
production to less than that which would be produced in an
explosion of the
same energy gradient. Thus, any reduction in informational entropy
in a
given system has the effect of reducing the rate of physical entropy
production by that system relative to what would be the case if the
constraints had not appeared. However, the maximum entropy production
princple (MEP) suggests that constraints will tend to apear that
will allow
the greatest physical entropy production consistent with the
integrity of
the system.
Stan is this the same idea as Weiner's : For Wiener, on the other
hand, “life is an island of negentropy amid a sea of disorder
(ibid.”).”
The Relativity of Information
In POE we associated biotic or instructional information with the
organization that a biotic agent is able to propagate. This
contradicts
Shannon's definition of information and the notion that a random
set or
soup of organic chemicals has more Shannon information than a
structured
and organized set of organic chemicals found in a living organism.
S: This 'notion' would be valid IF the comparison was strictly
between
a soup of subatomic particles and the arrangement of subatomic
particles
entrained by a biotic organization.
The point I am making is that organization is a form of information
not taken into account by Shannon
This argument completely contradicts the notion of information of
a system
biologist who would argue that a biological organism contains
information.
S: That is true because the systems biologist talks about
macromolecules and the cellular configurations constrainig them.
This argument contradicts the notion that information is an
invariant like
the speed of light, the same in all frames of reference.
S: As above, a material system exists at several scales, and
information at one scale can have no meaning, as such, at another
scale.
Agreed
"Shannon's theory defines information as a probability function
with no
dimension, no materiality, and no necessary connection with
meaning. It is
a pattern not a presence (Hayles 1999a, p. 18)." The lack of a
necessary
connection to meaning of Shannon information is what distinguishes
it from
biotic information. Biotic information obviously has meaning,
which is the
propagation of the organism's organization.
S: This is why I have suggested that the meaning of
information is
related to final causation. The 'propagation' referred to by Bob
is the
final cause regarding biological reproductive actvities.
Once again I agree with Stan and this idea is related to Fredkin's
idea that the meaning of information is connect to how it is
interpreted.
I would interpret the signals transmitted between Shannon's sender
and
receiver as data, Consistent with MacKay and Bateson's position
information makes a difference when it is contextualized and
significant.
Knowledge and wisdom represent higher order applications of
information
beyond the scope of this study. The contextualization of data so
that it
has meaning and significance and hence operates as information is an
emergent phenomenon. The communication of information cannot be
explained
solely in terms of the components of the Shannon system consisting
of the
sender, the receiver and the signal or message. It is a much more
complex
process than the simplified system that Shannon considered for the
purposes of mathematizing and engineering the transmission of
signals.
First of all it entails the knowledge of the sender and the
receiver, the
intentions or objectives of the sender and the receiver in
participating
in the process and finally the effects of the channel of
communication
itself as in McLuhan's notion that "the medium is the message". The
knowledge and intention of the sender and the receiver as well as the
effects of the channel all effect the message that is transmitted
by the
signal in addition to its content.
S: Of course, none of this INVALIDATES Shannon, but merely
states
that in most natural contexts it would be woefully underdetermining
even if
it could be calculated.
Agreed
The Meaning of Information in Biotic Systems
Biotic or instructional information, defined in POE as the
constraints
that allow an autonomous agent, i.e. a living organism, to convert
free
energy into work so that the living organism is able to propagate its
organization through growth and replication, is intimately
connected with
meaning. "For Shannon the semantics or meaning of the message does
not
matter, whereas in biology the opposite is true. Biotic agents have
purpose and hence meaning (Kauffman et al. 2007).
S: This is a bit tricky, insofar as careful consideration
suggests
that non-intensional systems cannot have purposes. However, we
just need
to note that purpose (teleology) is generalizable in biology to
'function'
(teleonomy), and that this in turn is generalizable to physical
tendency or
propensity (teleomaty). Thus, {teleomaty {teleonomy {teleology}}}
saves
the idea.
Thank goodness :-)
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