Dear Gordana, Pedro, and colleagues, That would be unfortunate because a reduction of the information-theoretical approach to physics unnecessarily sacrifices explanatory power. (As would by the way, a reduction to biology or any other substantive theory.) At issue is --as you correctly note-- the autopoiesis model itself which allows for coordination at different systems level. The formalisms allow us to move from one level to another heuristically, and thus to specify if necessary counter-intuitively. For example, the market can be considered as a social coordination system with its own dynamics. The coordination with other coordination mechanisms by various forms of couplings can also be studied using the information-theoretical approach because the expected information content of a distribution is yet content-free. The specification of a system of reference provides the (Shannon-type) information with meaning. For example, when H is multiplied with the Boltzmann constant, the entropy is expressed in Joule/Kelvin and physics is the system of reference. However, this is a special case. Joule and degrees have no clear meaning in the case of the operation of the market as a coordination mechanism. Best wishes, Loet _____
Loet Leydesdorff Amsterdam School of Communications Research (ASCoR), Kloveniersburgwal 48, 1012 CX Amsterdam. Tel.: +31-20- 525 6598; fax: +31-20- 525 3681 <mailto:l...@leydesdorff.net> l...@leydesdorff.net ; <http://www.leydesdorff.net/> http://www.leydesdorff.net/ _____ From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Pedro C. Marijuan Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 2:46 PM To: fis Subject: Re: [Fis] Emerging Synthesis? Dear Gordana and Loet, This is what the editors of the book literally say: "The third main idea is that Coordination Dynamics deals with informational quantities that transcend the medium through which the parts communicate. Evidence shows that things may be coupled by mechanical forces, by light, by sound, by smell, by touch and by intention. In Coordination Dynamics, "binding" or coupling is mediated by information, not --or not only-- by conventional forces. Such information may not only be of a material but also of a structural or topological nature. It may cause qualitative changes in the dynamics of the coordinating parts and new states to emerge. Hence, "bound" coordinative states in Coordination Dynamics are informational, and information that changes bound states is "meaningful" to the system." (Preface, p. IX) I agree with Gordana that it may support a pan-physicalist approach to information, and vice versa, a pan-informationalist approach to physics too. Besides, the ongoing conceptualization of meaning looks rather meager. From my view, another important objection to the "8 main ideas" is the absence of any reference to self-production (very different from self-organization!); the life-cycle notion is also missing... Linking with the discussion that Michel started weeks ago, rather than situating a similar recollection of main ideas about the term "information", it could be more interesting putting into question what it means "being informational". Say, the adjective as more holistic than the name. The whole process around the message (generation & needs, coding, emission, transmission, reception, decoding, interpretation, action...) becomes the natural universe of information science, rather than the focus on any single conceptual item (wherever we may be willing to situate "information"). Curiously, "informational" in English & in Spanish does not exist (only "informative", I think, but it means something completely different). What "informational" would be indicating, roughly, is that an entity self-constructs itself through the coupling of inner and environmental signals... as happens with cells, organisms, enterprises, etc. best regards Pedro "3. Thereafter, the coordination dynamics deals with "informational quantities" that transcend the medium through which the parts communicate. The "binding" or coupling is mediated by information and not by conventional forces (or not only)" But isn't that exchange of information carrier the way physical forces conventionally are - exchange forces? Particles that are exchanged in particle physics are information carriers (or "messages" if one so will). Best regards, Gordana Dear Gordana, I understood this as Shannon-type information which is dimensionless (bits) and merely dependent on changes in the distributions. The carriers in different systems (to be coordinated) can in this case be substantially different, but the distributions may communicate in terms of the transmission (etc.). Best wishes, Loet
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