in my first for the week, Replying to Joseph:
Dealing as I do with hierarchies and thermodynamics, I have come to
the postmodern conclusion that our explicit scientific knowledge is a
logical construct -- unlike our intuitive 'knowledge' (viz. qualia) of
the world we are IMMERSED IN. In these scientifically-based efforts
we create a logical simulacrum (which I call 'Nature') of The World.
Its basis is logic and esthetic, but today it also passes through a
pragmatic filter imposed by those who pay for the science. This
latter bias works mostly in choice of study objects. Stepping back
from active engagement in the process of gaining primary knowledge in
these ways, I feel that I am these days engaging in a renewed Natural
Philosophy -- an attempt to construct a scientifically based
'mythology' for moderns, meant as an alternative to religious myths.
These latter importantly have also engaged, via rituals, the qualia
we are immersed in. Inasmuch as Natural Philosophy has no such
practices associated with it, the primary function of the emerging
Nature is to challenge the religiously based myths associated with the
rituals in an attempt to unseat the associated political
establishments (Rome, the Caliphate, the Republican Party, etc.) that
enforce them.
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 7:54 AM, Joseph Brenner <joe.bren...@bluewin.ch
<mailto:joe.bren...@bluewin.ch>> wrote:
Dear All,
In agreeing with Bob, I would like to point out that his critique
is not
"theoretical philosophy". He is calling attention to something
essential
missing in the pictures and models of Stan and Karl, namely, 1)
the "life
and blood" of the world; 2) that that "life and blood" follows
different
rules than the entities in the models; 3) those rules are based on
real
dualities of equal ontological purport: order and disorder,
continuity and
discontinuity, entropy and negentropy; etc.; and 4) these
dualities play
out in real interactions in biology, cognition and society, for
example
in information and non-information.
It is perfectly possible to see "grids" of numbers and levels or
hierarchies
in Nature as abstract structures - this is indeed Karl's word, as
is his use
of "independence" - but this is not going toward the world, but
away from
it. The world includes Karls and Stans and Josephs and Bobs, and I
challenge
anyone to propose a theory that insures that our "antagonisms",
which are
real, also receive some logical treatment.
I for one do not know everything about everything I'm made of
(cf. our
fluctuon discussion), but I have the feeling it is not abstractions or
sequences of numbers. I mentioned string theory, but I am by no
means pushing it as the full story.
Cheers,
Joseph
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Ulanowicz" <u...@umces.edu <mailto:u...@umces.edu>>
To: <fis@listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es>>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Fis] reply to Javorsky
Dear All:
At the risk of being seen as the one who tries to throw a monkey
wrench into the fine discussion you all are having, I would like to
mention that the foregoing thread had focused entirely on alternatives
among monist scenarios.
I see the world as dual, not in the sense of Descartes, but of
Heraclitus. If I am correct, then any strategy predicated on a monist
principle is destined to lead to disaster. (Stan and I have gone round
and round on this. I see entropy as double-sided and not simply as
disorder. [Ecological Modelling 220 (2009) 1886-1892].)
But I'm hardly the only one to warn against a monist view. Terry
Deacon's model of self-organization, the "Autocell" acts similarly.
The process starts by using up external gradients as quickly as
possible, but gradually shuts down as the autocell nears
self-completion. (Deacon, T.W. and J. Sherman. 2008. The Pattern Which
Connects Pleroma to Creatura: The Autocell Bridge from Physics to
Life. Biosemiotics 2:59-76.)
The best to all,
Bob
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert E. Ulanowicz | Tel: +1-352-378-7355
Arthur R. Marshall Laboratory | FAX: +1-352-392-3704
Department of Biology | Emeritus, Chesapeake Biol. Lab
Bartram Hall 110 | University of Maryland
University of Florida | Email <u...@cbl.umces.edu
<mailto:u...@cbl.umces.edu>>
Gainesville, FL 32611-8525 USA | Web
<http://www.cbl.umces.edu/~ulan <http://www.cbl.umces.edu/%7Eulan>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quoting Stanley N Salthe <ssal...@binghamton.edu
<mailto:ssal...@binghamton.edu>>:
> *Replying to Karl, who said:*
>
>
> one can use a stable model used by neurology and psychology to
come closer
> to understanding how our brain works. This can help to formulate the
> thoughts Pedro mentioned being obscure.
>
> One pictures the brain as a quasi-meteorological model of an
extended
> world
> containing among others swamp, savanna, arid zones. The
dissipation of
> water
> above these regions causes clouds to form and storms to
discharge the
> vapor
> within the clouds. The model observes the lightnings in the
model and sets
> them as an allegory to thoughts (these being electrical
discharges) as
> opposed to hormones (that are the fluids in the swamps). So
there is an
> assumed independence between the rainfall, the humidity of the
ground,
> cloud
> formation and lightnings. The real meteorologists would not
agree with the
> simplification that the lightning is the central idea of a
rainfall, but
> this is how the picture works (at present).
>
> Why I offer these idle thoughts from the biologic sciences to
FIS is that
> it
> is now possible to make a model of these processes in an
abstract, logical
> fashion. The colleaugues in Fis are scientists in the rational
tradition
> and
> may find useful that a rational algorithm can be shown to allow
simulating
> the little tricks Nature appears to use.
>
> Nature changes the form of the imbalance, once too many or too few
> lightnings, once too much or lacking water - relative to the other
> representation's stable state. There are TWO sets of reference. The
> deviation between the two sets of references is what Nature uses
in its
> manifold activities.
>
>
> This model looks at the physical equivalences in two realms by
> modeling in thermodynamics. Today in thermodynamics we have an
advancing
> perspective known as the `Maximum Entropy Production Principle´
(MEPP) for
> relatively simple systems like weather, or Maximum Energy Dispersal
> Principle´ (MEDP) for complicated material systems like the
brain. In
> both
> cases the dynamics are controlled by the Second Law of
Thermodynamics,
> which
> imposes that the available energy gradients will be dissipated
in the
> least
> possible time, taking the easiest routes available. This
becomes very
> interesting in the brain, where the flow of depolarizations
would then be
> predicted to be biased in the direction of more habitual
`thoughts´. I
> think that this prediction seems to be born out in our own
experiences of
> the frequent return of our attention to various insistent
thoughts. I
> recommend that Karl inquire into MEPP. For this purpose I paste
in some
> references.
>
>
> STAN
>
>
> MEPP related publications:
>
>
> Annila, A. and S.N. Salthe, 2009. Economies evolve by energy
dispersal.
> Entropy, 2009, 11: 606-633.
>
>
> Annila, A. and S.N. Salthe, 2010. Physical foundations of
evolutionary
> theory. Journal on Non-Equilibrium Thermodynamics 35: 301-321.
>
>
> Annila, A. and S.N. Salthe, 2010. Cultural naturalism.
Entropy, 2010,
> 12:
> 1325-1352.
>
>
> Bejan, A. and S. Lorente, 2010. The constructal law of design and
> evolution
> in nature. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society, B, 365:
> 1335-1347.
>
>
> Brooks, D.R. and E.O. Wiley, 1988. Evolution As Entropy: Toward
A Unified
> Theory Of Biology (2nd. ed.) Chicago. University of Chicago Press.
>
>
> Chaisson, E.J., 2008. Long-term global heating from energy
usage. Eos,
> Transactions of the American Geophysical Union 89: 353-255.
>
>
> DeLong, J.P., J.G. Okie, M.E. Moses, R.M. Sibly and J.H. Brown,
2010.
> Shifts
> in metabolic scaling, production, and efficiency across major
evolutionary
> transitions of life. Proceedings of the Natiional Academy of
Sciences.
> Early
> EDition
>
>
> Dewar, R. C., 2003. Information theory explanation of the
fluctuation
> theorem, maximum entropy production, and self-organized
criticality in
> non-equilibrium stationary states. Journal of Physics, A
Mathematics and
> General 36: L631-L641.
>
>
> Dewar, R.C., 2005. Maximum entropy production and the fluctuation
> theorem.
> Journal of Physics A Mathematics and General 38: L371-L381.
>
>
> Dewar, R.C., 2009. Maximum entropy production as an inference
algorithm
> that translates physical assumptions into macroscopic
predictions: Don't
> shoot the messenger. Entropy 2009. 11: 931-944.
>
>
> Dewar. R.C. and A. Porté, 2008. Statistical mechanics unifies
different
> ecological patterns. Journal of Theoretical Biology 251:389-403.
>
>
> Dyke, J. and A. Kleidon. 2010. The maximum entropy production
principle:
> its
> theoretical foundations and applications to the Earth system.
Entropy
> 2010,
> 12:613-630.
>
>
> Herrmann-Pillath, C., 2010. Entropy, function and evolution:
naturalizing
> Peircean semiosis. Entropy 2010, 12: 197-242.
>
>
> Kleidon, A. (2009): Non-equilibrium Thermodynamics and Maximum
Entropy
> Production in the Earth System: Applications and Implications,
> Naturwissenschaften 96: 653-677.
>
>
> Kleidon, A. (2010): Non-equilibrium Thermodynamics, Maximum Entropy
> Production and Earth-system evolution, Philosophical
Transactions of the
> Royal Society A, 368: 181-196.
>
>
> Kleidon, A. and R. Lorenz (eds) Non-equilibrium Thermodynamics
and the
> Production of Entropy: Life Earth, and Beyond Heidelberg: Springer.
>
>
> Lineweaver, C.H. 2005. Cosmological and biological reproducibility:
> limits
> of the maximum entropy production principle. In Kleidon, A. and
Lorenz,
> R.
> Non-equilibrium Thermodynamics and the Production of Entropy:
Life, Earth
> and Beyond. Springer Pp. 67-76.
>
>
> Lineweaver, C.H. and C.A. Egan, 2008. Life, gravity and the
second law of
> thermodynamics. Physics of Life Reviews (2008)
> doi:10.1016/j.plrev.2008.08.002
>
>
> Lorenz. R.D., 2002. Planets, life and the production of entropy.
> International Journal of Astrobiology 1: 3-13.
>
>
> Mahulikar, S.P. and H. Herwig, 2004. Conceptual Investigation of the
> Entropy
> Principle for Indentification of Directives for Creation,
Existence and
> Total Destruction of Order. Physica Scripta. Vol. 70, 212-22i.
>
>
> Martyushev, L.M., 2010. Maximum entropy production principle:
two basic
> questions. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society, B, 365:
> 1333-1334.
>
>
> Paltridge, G., 1975. Global dynamics and climate -- a system of
minimum
> entropy exchange. Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological
Society
> 101:475-484.
>
>
>
> Salthe, S.N., 1993. Development And Evolution: Complexity And
Change In
> Biology. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.
>
>
> Salthe, S.N., 2004. The spontaneous origin of new levels in
dynamical
> hierarchies. Entropy 2004, 6[3]: 327-343.
>
>
> Salthe, S.N., 2010. Development (and evolution) of the universe.
> Foundations of Science. In Press
>
>
> Schneider, E.D. and Kay, J.J., 1994. Life as a manifestation of the
> Second
> Law of thermodynamics. Mathematical and Computer Modelling 19:
25-48.
>
>
> Schneider, E.D. and D. Sagan., 2005. Into the Cool: Energy Flow,
> Thermodynamics, and Life. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
>
>
> Sharma, V. and A. Annila, 2007. Natural process - natural selection.
> Biophysical Chemistry 127: 123-128.
>
>
> Swenson, R., 1989. Emergent attractors and the law of maximum
entropy
> production: foundations to a theory of general evolution.
Systems Research
> 6: 187-198.
>
>
> Swenson, R., 1997. Autocatakinetics, evolution, and the law of
maximum
> entropy production. Advances in Human Ecology 6: 1-47.
>
>
> Ulanowicz, R.D.and B.M. Hannon, 1987. Life and the production of
entropy.
> Proceedings of the Royal Society B 232: 181-192.
>
>
> Vallino, J.J., 2010. Ecosystem biogeochemistry considered as a
> distributed
> metabolic network ordered by maximum entropy production.
Philosophical
> Transactions of the Royal Society, B, 365: 1417-1427.
>
>
> Virgo, N. 2010, From maximum entropy to maximum entropy
production: a new
> approach. Entropy 2010, 12: 107-126.
>
>
> Zupanovic, P., S. Botric, D. Juretic and D. Kuic. 2010. Relaxation
> processes and the maximum entropy production principle.
Entropy, 2010.12:
> 473-479.
>
>
> Zupanovic, P., D. Kuic, Z.B. Losic, D. petrov, D. juretic and M.
Brumen
> 2010. The maximum entropy production principle and linear
irreversible
> processes. Entropy 2010, 12: 996-1005.
>
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