Message from STAN
Jerry -- It is this translation from material observations into logical
form, in particular into fully explicit, crisp logical form that I am
questioning. Yes, it can lead to short term triumphs, via engineering,
but I think that our culture has boxed itself into a conceptual corner
by total reliance on focus on particulars (e.g., 'information') and
their manipulation into (short term) success and profit. The
supposition that the information concept can form the basis of a
conceptual understanding of the world is a consequence of our valuing
these successes excessively.
STAN
-------
Jerry (your other message)
You seem to think that the World has a logical foundation, as judged by
"spectacular practical and economic success.
Since this 'success' appears to be leading toward our doom, I have
reservations about it. As well, I think that there is no objective
evidence that the world apart from us, is logical.
STAN
----------------------------------------------
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 6:00 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan
<pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>> wrote:
Message From Jerry Chandler
(Please post to FIS)
List, Stan:
Are you serious about taking up scientific ostension?
A. Lavoisier was the first to apply a systematic theory of
information to ostensive but invisible and indivisible relations
within materially causal systems.
John Dalton was the first to apply a systematic mathematical theory
of information to the invisible and indivisible relations within
materially causal systems.
Both Lavoisier and Dalton were motivated by the earlier decisive
experimentation of J. Priestley showing the ostensive material
causal relations relating plant to animal life.
(I am using the term "information" in the sense of non-predicative
objects (concepts) bringing form into a system; this usage is not
restricted to Keilmeyer's notion of organic forces.)
With regard to the role of information theory in the relations
between traditional inquiry and technology, one has to look no
further than the International System of Units (de Tracy) which
imagined relations between mathematical functions and the measurable
properties of nature. Although the SI was purposed for economic
purposes of "fair trade", it has become the de facto basis of
logical relations of physics and engineering.
No ostension between the Lavoisier/Dalton theory of information and
the SI system is possible.
Cheers
Jerry
*From: *Stanley N Salthe <ssal...@binghamton.edu
<mailto:ssal...@binghamton.edu>>
*Date: *January 19, 2011 9:35:51 AM EST
*To: *fis@listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es>
*Subject: **Re: [Fis] Future discussions*
Tagging on after Joseph --
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 9:19 PM, joe.bren...@bluewin.ch
<mailto:joe.bren...@bluewin.ch> <joe.bren...@bluewin.ch
<mailto:joe.bren...@bluewin.ch>> wrote:
Dear Pedro and All,
Thank you for your note and the ambitious program. My brief
comments by theme:
--Theme 1: Historical Foundations of Modern Science.
Sounds very interesting; the "Science and Society" aspect
fits well with Theme 3.
I hope it will discuss how science was taken over as (became limited
to) support for technology.
-- Theme 2: On Information Theory.
My hope is that this discussion will have a good deal to do
with qualitative as well as quantitative aspects of
information. Perhaps people should state clearly what the
primary interests and objectives are of their remarks.
Maybe it could take up ostension? This would bring in vagueness (or
at least fuzzy information theory)?
-- Theme 3: Foundations of Social Information Science.
This should be a fascinating occasion to evaluate different
social models from an informational standpoint.
Again, ostensible communication. Pointed absence of communication?
STAN
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