Message from Karl Javorszky
-------- Mensaje original --------
Asunto: Re: [Fis] Hannam's Contentious Postulate---John Collier
Fecha: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 12:32:25 +0100
De: karl javorszky <karl.javors...@gmail.com>
Responder a: karl.javors...@gmail.com
Para: Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>
Referencias: <4d809224....@aragon.es>
The Common Subject: Order
Going back thru history, the participants of this discussion agree that
there is a common subject in the course of cultural "evolution" and the
progress of Science. Let me propose that we call this Grail of Wisdom
(Quintessence, the Philosopher's Stone, the Ultimate Truth, etc.) that
each culture has over the generations tried to find, focus on, analyse,
understand, recreate to be the concept of Order.
We try to find out, how the interdependences are ordered. Be the subject
of our interest a society, scientific interchanges, economy, the
languages, the concept of information - we invariably try to bring order
into the concepts. The order itself is a tool - as QTQ pointed out - by
which we , well, order the object underlying presently an un-understable
disorder.
Order has many connotations that cary a ballast. Discipline, plan,
expectations, correctness, answering to responsibilities are just a few
of the interfering co-excitations as we create a mental image of the
concept of order. The order as such, pure and simple, is always a
hostage of cultural consensus, the terms of which are dictated by the
ruling clique. To discuss the idea of order, alternative orders and the
ideal order is in many societies a short road towards becoming targeted
as a system destabilisator (by questioning the existing order).
Would we risk political persecution if we modified the group's name from
"Foundations of Information Science" into "Foundations of the Science of
Order"? (Not that I propose such.) That would raise eyebrows in the
ruling circles, would it not. Anarchy and disorder are in a traditional
relation in one's brain, which suits the ruling clique well. But in fact
disorder is not a sickness of the brain or of Physics but a signal for
our neurology's preferences for patterns.
The interplay between order and disorder is what underlies information.
Karl
2011/3/16 Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
<mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>>
Message from John Collier
-------- Mensaje original --------
Asunto: Fwd: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
Fecha: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 11:29:17 +0200
De: John Collier <colli...@ukzn.ac.za> <mailto:colli...@ukzn.ac.za>
Para: Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>
<mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>
A response to Jerry
A series of responses to recent posts of James, Gavin, Steven,
Stan, Pedro, zyx, Joe, and koichiro.
FIS response March 14, 2011
I often disagree with Jerry, but in this case I endorse pretty
much everything he says. Our disagreements have been beneficial to
my own understanding, even if I have not been able to revise my
views.
On a different note, I draw the members of this list to
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/indepth/44680
*An inordinate fondness for bits*
I have a copy of this book, and I find some of the papers quite
bizarre, which is unusual for me as I am typically open to broad
notions of the nature of information. There are many chapters by
authors I know and greatly respect, and largely agree with, so
overall I can recommend the book. But I also agree with the
reviewer that there are rather extreme but interesting views in
the last part. My brief exposure to Sufism is that God is Hu, the
first distinction.The idea is that of a breath that separates
chaos from order. As I believe that information is grounded in
distinctions, I cannot reject this notion, though I would be very
reluctant to call it God.
Best to all,
John
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Professor John Collier, Acting HoS and Acting Deputy HoS
colli...@ukzn.ac.za <mailto:colli...@ukzn.ac.za>
Philosophy and Ethics, University of KwaZulu-Natal, Durban 4041
South Africa
T: +27 (31) 260 3248 / 260 2292 F: +27 (31) 260 3031
http://collier.ukzn.ac.za/
-------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
fis mailing list
fis@listas.unizar.es
https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
