Dear Bob,


This is not wasted time or space. At their beginning, there was something 
moving, call it ‘It’, that led to trees and us. Today, there is something in 
us, call it ‘It’, that leads to love. This It became and now becomes us. Am I 
to blame that I to try to understand It, from the beginning, as information?


Please do send me an E-mail copy of the latest version of your book. The one I 
have is dated December 9, 2011.





  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Logan 
  Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 8:53 PM
  Subject: Re: [Fis] Physical Informatics… (J.Brenner)

  Dear all - my take on this post is that the question of whether physical 
processes are information is like the question: Is there a sound if a tree 
falls in the forest and no one is there to listen? This is like the Zen koan: 
"what is the sound of one hand clapping" If no one is in the forest are the 
trees information? Well for sure they are trees but as to whether or not they 
are information that is strictly dependent on the point of view of the 
respondent. For me they are just trees and here is why I think so. For me 
information is about a process. The noun information relates to the verb 
inform. If no one is being informed there is no information. In the same way 
that if no one or thing is there being loved (verb) their is no love (noun). If 
no one is engaged in the activity of loving (a verb) there is no love (a noun). 
If there is no one being informed (a verb) then there is no information (a 
noun). Now one can talk about an object or a phenomenon having the possibility 
of informing someone which to my mind is potential information which is what I 
would call the physical processes that take place in our universe. A book 
written in Urdu is potential information because an Urdu reader can be informed 
by it. For me as a non-Urdu speaker there is very little information other than 
someone went to the trouble of writing out a text with Urdu letters and hence 
there is probably information there for an Urdu speaker reasoning why would any 
one make the effort to create such an object unless that person wanted to 
inform Urdu speakers. Just as one person's food is another person's poison so 
it is that one person's information is just for another persons merely a 
physical phenomenon such as processes in nature, ink on paper, sounds or EM 
signals. Shannon developed a theory of signals in which some of those signals 
have the ability to inform some recipients. I hope this collection of words has 
informed you other than giving you the knowledge of my view as to what 
constitutes information. Thanks to Joseph, Pedro, and Igor for the opportunity 
to reflect on the nature of information. If you enjoyed my post and would like 
to learn more about my views on information please send me an email off line 
and I will send you an email version of my book What is Information?  
Propagating Organization in the Biosphere, the Symbolosphere, the Technosphere 
and the Econosphere  for free. And now you know what an infomercial is. This 
was an infomercial because of my offer to share my book with you erudite 
scholars of FIS whose posts I always enjoy. With kind regards - Bob


  Robert K. Logan
  Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto 
  Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD

  On 2014-10-20, at 1:57 PM, PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ wrote:

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Joseph Brenner
    To: Igor Gurevich ; Pedro C. Marijuan ; fis
    Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 8:40 AM
    Subject: Re: [Fis] Physical Informatics contains fundamental results which 
impossible to get only by physical methods

    Dear Igor, Dear Gerhard and Colleagues,

    In Igor's summary of his recent work, I read the following absoutely 
critical statement:
    " It is shown that the expansion of the Universe is the source of 
information formation, wherein a variety of physical processes in an expanding 
Universe provide information formation." I take this as meaning that the 
expansion of the Universe as such does not produce information. 

    Gerhard's formulation is slightly different (my paraphrase):
    "The first assymetry in energy distribution, following the singularity, is 
the source of information formation".

    My question is, therefore, how best to combine these insights. For example, 
we may say that the variety of physical processes are all the consequence of, 
and subsequently reflect, a first assymetry.

    It is also interesting to note that the approaches of both Igor and Gerhard 
imply the emergence of information through the interactional impact 
(informational interactions) of fundamental forces on particles, extended by 
Gerhard to somewhat higher levels of organization (life) than Igor.  

    I look forward to further discussion of these fundamental issues.


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Igor Gurevich
      To: Pedro C. Marijuan ; fis
      Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 9:47 AM
      Subject: [Fis] Physical Informatics contains fundamental results which 
impossible to get only by physical methods

      Dear Pedro C. Marijuan,
      Dear colleagues,
      I send you "The main results of Gurevich I.M. (Physical Informatics 
contains fundamental results which impossible to get only by physical methods)" 

      and "Igor Gurevich: Main publications in English" . 
      With best wishes.

      Igor Gurevich


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