Dear Marcus,

Thank you for this simple and absolutely essential intervention. Allowing
ourselves the freedom to use the same term—'information' which is the
defining term for this entire enterprise—for such different relationships
as intrinsic signal properties and extrinsic referential and normative
properties is a recipe for irrelevance.

— Terry

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Loet Leydesdorff <l...@leydesdorff.net>
wrote:

> Dear Marcus and colleagues,
>
>
>
> Katherine Hayles (1990, pp. 59f.) compared this discussion about the
> definition of “information” with asking whether a glass is half empty or
> half full. Shannon-type information is a measure of the variation or
> uncertainty, whereas Bateson’s “difference which makes a difference”
> presumes a system of reference for which the information can make a
> difference and thus be meaningful.
>
>
>
> In my opinion, the advantage of measuring uncertainty in bits cannot be
> underestimated, since the operationalization and the measurement provide
> avenues to hypothesis testing and thus control of speculation (Theil,
> 1972). However, the semantic confusion can also be solved by using the
> words “uncertainty” or “probabilistic entropy” when Shannon-type
> information is meant.
>
>
>
> I note that “a difference which makes a difference” cannot so easily be
> measured. J I agree that it is more precise to speak of “meaningful
> information” in that case. The meaning has to be specified in the system of
> reference (e.g., physics and/or biology).
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Loet
>
>
>
>
>
> References:
>
>
>
> Hayles, N. K. (1990). *Chaos Bound; Orderly Disorder in Contemporary
> Literature and Science *Ithaca, etc.: Cornell University.
>
> Theil, H. (1972). *Statistical Decomposition Analysis*. Amsterdam/
> London: North-Holland.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Loet Leydesdorff
>
> *Emeritus* University of Amsterdam
> Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)
>
> l...@leydesdorff.net ; http://www.leydesdorff.net/
> Honorary Professor, SPRU, <http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/>University of
> Sussex;
>
> Guest Professor Zhejiang Univ. <http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/>,
> Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, ISTIC,
> <http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html>Beijing;
>
> Visiting Professor, Birkbeck <http://www.bbk.ac.uk/>, University of
> London;
>
> http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en
>
>
>
> *From:* Fis [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] *On Behalf Of *Marcus
> Abundis
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2015 7:02 PM
> *To:* fis@listas.unizar.es
> *Subject:* [Fis] It-from-Bit and information interpretation of QM
>
>
>
> Dear Andrei,
>
>
>
>     I would ask for clarification on whether you speak of "information" in
> your examples as something that has innate "meaning" or something that is
> innately "meaningless" . . . which has been a core issue in earlier
> exchanges. If this issue of "meaning" versus "meaningless" in the use of
> the term "information" is not resolved (for the group?) it seems hard (to
> me) to have truly meaningful exchanges . . . without having to put a
> "meaningful" or "meaningless" qualifier in front of "information" every
> time it is use.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Marcus Abundis*
>
> about.me/marcus.abundis
>
> [image: http://d13pix9kaak6wt.cloudfront.net/signature/colorbar.png]
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Fis@listas.unizar.es
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>
>


-- 
Professor Terrence W. Deacon
University of California, Berkeley
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