Well now i can't withstand commenting on phenomenolgy, symbols and time. This is too much screaming for formalisation.
The three concepts mentioned above can be abstracted into the mother of all symbols, the collection of natural numbers. Let us pose the question of interrelatedness of time concepts to symbols and epistemolgy as follows: "Is there a way to use numbers as symbols for the concepts discussed?" In fact, the answer is affirmative. It takes changing the fundamentals of our thinking (even worse, of our perception). We now do not regard thing, thing's properties, place, quantity as independent ideas, but use the term "order /or: succession/." to demonstrate the interlinkedness of the ideas enumerated as separate above. Once we understand that numbers can serve as tokens for ideas, an important first step has been made. Generally speaking, the discussion in FIS is delightfully peripathetic. Let us hope that a consensus will emerge, that simple and obvious rules that Nature appers to obey (even if we humans do not understand them) will probably be reflected in simple and obvious rules of arithmetic. The encouraging news is that the answer is ready and waiting. The hope is that the consensus will emerge that the problem can be formulated as a question. Karl On 22 Feb 2016 15:40, "Stanley N Salthe" <ssal...@binghamton.edu> wrote: > Marcus -- You have an interesting point regarding plants and > phenomenology. Their behavior occurs over a time scale where we > phenomenologists see nothing happening. This slow time scale was > illuminated by non-phenomenological science studies, while also inquiring > into faster-than-phenomenological time scale events. Is phenomenology to be > grounded in our animal time scale only? Or, in what way or sense can > phenomenology transcend that scale? > > STAN > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 12:05 AM, Marcus Abundis <55m...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear Stanley & Loet, >> Gentlemen, when you speak of "origin" I am unsure of what *exactly* >> you have in mind. Is it the "origin of the capacity for movement" that you >> think about? The origin of life, itself, along with all its causal roles? >> Or? >> > Then, many of the living do not ‘move’. . . Plants move slowly by >> growth. How could a phenomenologist view this at all?< >> I think studying *differential movement* could fall within >> phenomenology, but explaining the *origination* of autonomous movement, >> would not. Also, it seems (to me) a bit unreasonable to think such an >> origination (origin of life) narrative would be addressed in this group. Or >> do I mistake your meaning, or the group's ultimate aim? Thanks! >> >> Maxine, >> I am unclear from your extended abstract on what exactly you aim to >> accomplish in the study you present. Also, are we to read the >> "Phenomenology and Life Sciences" piece as well? I read its abstract and >> its mention of "coordinated dynamics" seemed to say "yes!" but I am unsure. >> The emphasis you seem to offer in "Phenomenology and Evolutionary >> Biology" I find interesting. Also, your mention of "static" and "genetic" >> aspects along with movement. To my mind this points to kinematics, statics, >> and dynamics in a more directly mechanical sense – but which you now wish >> to tie to evolutionary biology? Is that correct? I find that an interesting >> line of thought. >> Also, I like Pedro's notion of a connection between dance and mate >> selection. Dance then being a display behavior demonstrating an >> advantageous capacity for navigating the evolutionary landscape. >> Still, I find what you present a bit "too raw" and I am not exactly >> sure how I should view the material. For example jumping form >> dance/movement to teeth leaves me with a big gap in joining the two. I get >> the sense that you aim to close "a gap" but I am not clear on how exactly >> you do so. "Where did the notion of a tool come from?" This is an important >> question, but how is it precisely answered or addressed? Do you attribute >> the entire genesis of "six simple machines" all to teeth? >> Lastly, I too work in this area and I am just now finishing (very >> rough draft) a piece that looks at this issue. I agree that it is an >> overlooked area of study. I am happy to share what I have wth you, if you >> might find it of interest. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Fis mailing list >> Fis@listas.unizar.es >> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis@listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > >
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