On 14 Oct 2016, at 16:16, Dai Griffiths wrote:

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To trying to answer this question, I find myself asking "Do patternsexist without an observer?".

Would 2+2=4 be true without the big bang occurring?

`Of course this depend on the fundamental theory chosen. With a`

`physicalist theory, it is arguable that a pattern does not exist`

`without an observer, but this raise the question of what is an`

`observer. If it is itself a pattern, where does the first observer`

`come from, etc.`

`With Mechanism, which has been shown epistemologically inconsistent`

`with physicalism, we can accept that the truth or falsity of`

`arithmetical relations is independent of the existence of an observer,`

`and then we can easily defined an observer in term of arithmetical`

`relations. This, nevertheless, will multiply it an infinity of times`

`and leads to many-worlds, which are somehow confirmed by the`

`observation if we agree that there is no wave-collapse (Everett).`

`To sum up, with Mechanism, some pattern exist independently of the`

`observer, but most will make sense only relative to some observer,`

`i.e. some universal number.`

A number of familiar problems then re-emerge, which blur my abilityto distinguish between foreground and background.

`That is why a strong, yet natural, hypothesis can help, like (Digital)`

`Mechanism. In that case it is a fractal similar to the Mandelbrot set`

`(to simplify and shorten things).`

`Then incompleteness refutes Socrates critics of Theaetetus' definition`

`of the knower (the logic of []p & p does differ from the logic of []p,`

`even in the case of p <-> []p, as we get with the basic elementary`

`arithmetic sentences (sigma_1-sentences).`

`This might explain why some blurring is unavoidable, and why all`

`universal number, from its first person point of view, can't`

`distinguish the foreground and the background. Such distinction is`

`intrinsically complex and universal machine related.`

Bruno

Dai On 13/10/16 11:32, Karl Javorszky wrote:Do patterns contain information?-- ----------------------------------------- Professor David (Dai) Griffiths Professor of Education School of Education and Psychology The University of Bolton Deane Road Bolton, BL3 5AB Office: T3 02 http://www.bolton.ac.uk/IEC SKYPE: daigriffiths UK Mobile +44 (0)749151559 Spanish Mobile: + 34 687955912 Work: + 44 (0)7826917705 (Please don't leave voicemail) email: d.e.griffi...@bolton.ac.uk dai.griffith...@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis

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