Dear all,
I make the last remark about "physical information". The main problem of 
quantum physics is to justify so called 
IRREDUCIBLE QUANTUM RANDOMNESS (IQR). It was invented  by von Neumann. Quantum 
randomness, in contrast to classical,
cannot be reduced to variations in an ensemble. One single electron is 
irreducibly random.  

The operational Copenhagen interpretation cannot "explain" the origin of  IQR, 
since it does not even try to explain anything,
"Shut up and calculate!" (R. Feynman to his students). Nevertheless, many  top 
experts in QM want some kind of "explanation". The informational approach to QM 
is one 
of such attempts. Roughly speaking, one tries to get IQR from fundamental  
notion of "physical information" as the basic blocks of Nature. 

This is very important activity, since nowadays IQR has huge technological 
value, the quantum random generators are justified through IQR. And this is 
billion Euro 

Finally, to check experimentally the presence of IQR, we have to appeal to 
violation  of Bell's inequality. And here (!!!) to proceed we  have to accept 
the existence of 
FREE WILL. Thus finally the cognitive elements appears, but in  very 

Yours, andrei       

Andrei Khrennikov, Professor of Applied Mathematics,
Int. Center Math Modeling: Physics, Engineering, Economics, and Cognitive Sc.
Linnaeus University, Växjö, Sweden

From: Fis [] on behalf of John Collier 
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 9:19 PM
To:; 'Alex Hankey'; 'FIS Webinar'
Subject: Re: [Fis] Is quantum information the basis of spacetime?

More on Quantum information and emergent spacetime, this time by Erik P. 
Emergent Gravity and the Dark Universe<>

There is a less formal review at

I consider the idea very speculative, as I have seen no work on information 
within a spacetime boundary except for this sort of work.

Of course, meaning need not apply. I doubt that it is bounded by language, but 
it at least has to be representational. Perhaps more is also required. I am 
reluctant to talk of meaning when discussing the semiotics of biological 
chemicals, for example, but could not find a better word. A made up word like 
Deacon’s “entention” might work best, but it still would not apply to the 
physics cases, even though the information in the boundaries in all cases but 
the internal information one can tell you about the spacetime structure within 
the boundary. That seems to me that it is like smoke to fire: smoke doesn’t 
mean fire, despite the connection.

John Collier
Emeritus Professor and Senior Research Associate
Philosophy, University of KwaZulu-Natal

From: Fis [] On Behalf Of Loet Leydesdorff
Sent: Saturday, 12 November 2016 9:29 PM
To: 'Alex Hankey' <>; 'FIS Webinar' <>
Subject: Re: [Fis] Is quantum information the basis of spacetime?

Dear Alex and colleagues,

Thank you for the reference; but my argument was about “meaning”. “Meaning” can 
only be considered as constructed in language. Other uses of the word are 
metaphorical. For example, the citation to Maturana.

Information, in my opinion, can be defined content-free (a la Shannon, etc.) 
and then be provided with meaning in (scholarly) discourses. I consider physics 
as one among other scholarly discourses. Specific about physics is perhaps the 
universalistic character of the knowledge claims. For example: “Frieden's 
points apply to quantum physics
as well as classical physics.“ So what? This seems to me a debate within 
physics without much relevance for non-physicists (e.g., economists or 


Loet Leydesdorff
Professor, University of Amsterdam
Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR) <> ;
Associate Faculty, SPRU, <> University of Sussex;
Guest Professor Zhejiang Univ.<>, Hangzhou; 
Visiting Professor, ISTIC, <> Beijing;
Visiting Professor, Birkbeck<>, University of London;

From: Alex Hankey []
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 8:07 PM
To: Loet Leydesdorff; FIS Webinar
Subject: Re: [Fis] Is quantum information the basis of spacetime?

Dear Loet and Fis Colleagues,

Are you aware of Roy Frieden's
'Physics from Fisher Information'.
His book was published in the 1990s.
I consider it a very powerful statement.

Ultimately everything we can detect at
both macroscopic and microscopic levels
depends on information production from
a quantum level that forms Fisher Information.

Frieden's points apply to quantum physics
as well as classical physics.

Best wishes,

Alex Hankey

On 12 November 2016 at 18:56, Loet Leydesdorff 
<<>> wrote:
Dear Marcus,

When considering things in terms of "functional significance" one must confront 
the need to address "meaning" in terms of both the living and the physical . . 
. and their necessarily entangled nature.

“Meaning” is first a linguistic construct; its construction requires interhuman 
communication. However, its use in terms of the living and/or the physical is 
metaphorical. Instead of a discourse, one can this consider (with Maturana) as 
a “second-order consensual domain” that functions AS a semantic domain without 
being one; Maturana (1978, p. 50):

“In still other words, if an organism is observed in its operation within a 
second-order consensual domain, it appears to the observer as if its nervous 
system interacted with internal representations of the circumstances of its 
interactions, and as if the changes of state of the organism were determined by 
the semantic value of these representations. Yet all that takes place in the 
operation of the nervous system is the structure-determined dynamics of 
changing relations of relative neuronal activity proper to a closed neuronal 

Failing to "make that connection" simply leaves one with an explanatory gap. 
And then, once connected, a further link to "space-time" is also easily located 
. . .

Yes, indeed: limiting the discussion to the metaphors instead of going to the 
phore (that is, language and codification in language) leaves one with an 
explanatory gap. Quantum physics, for example, is a highly specialized language 
in which “mass” and “information” are provided with meanings different from 
classical physics.


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Alex Hankey M.A. (Cantab.) PhD (M.I.T.)
Distinguished Professor of Yoga and Physical Science,
SVYASA, Eknath Bhavan, 19 Gavipuram Circle
Bangalore 560019, Karnataka, India
Mobile (Intn'l): +44 7710 534195
Mobile (India) +91 900 800 8789

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