Dear Howard,

In any extent, your beautiful questions are beyond my reach. I think that the physical characterization of life cannot even provide a whim on your demands; but something of the informational might provide some limited inroads: prokaryots could not achieve any significant progress in morphological or differentiation capabilities within their "colonies". Conversely, eukaryotes developed multicellularity due to their far higher information content (genome), their far improved signaling resources, their endless energy supply in support of the general combinatoric problem-solving tools (mitochondria), and the incorporation of a new locus (cytoskeleton) capable of feeling the force field and reacting to it. A chain of amazing inventions is behind any of the existing branches of complex life... can do they admit a general explanation, not just based on natural selection, but on the improved evolvability that has been obtained by being able to explore any molecular-recognition contraption (within partially collapsed solution state-spaces, a la Wagner?). Otherwise we are lead to admit a deep enigma, still uncharted, or to look for external "intelligence" solutions outside the limits of current scientific paradigms.

What is your own opinion??

Best wishes--Pedro

   El 09/02/2017 a las 22:44, escribió:
fascinating thinking, pedro.
it triggers this:

The stages of development are far more than real-world problem solvers.They set artificial challenges, then achieve them.Making a caterpillar that works is anenormously complex challenge.Making a working butterfly is also immensely more complex than any simple challenge mounted by the environment.Changing from caterpillar to butterfly in one lifetime is unachievable beyond all belief.And these grotesquely artificial goals can’t be accounted for by a simple goal of survival.The goal, if anything, seems to be to accomplish the ornate, the unnecessary, the flamboyant, and the impossible.How does a drive toward impossible flamboyance get built intolife?How doesit get built into the cosmos?

with warmth and oomph--howard
Howard Bloom
author of : The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History ("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post), Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the Big Bang to the 21st Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New Yorker), The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("Impressive, stimulating, and tremendously enjoyable."James Fallows, National Correspondent, The Atlantic), The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates ("Bloom's argument will rock your world." Barbara Ehrenreich), How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“a monumental,epic, glorious literary achievement.” Timothy Leary), and The Muhammad Code: How a Desert Prophet Gave You ISIS, al Qaeda, and Boko Haram--or How Muhammad Invented Jihad (“a terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam,” David Swindle, PJ Media). Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; Former Visiting Scholar—Graduate Psychology Department, NewYork University Founder: International PaleopsychologyProject; founder and chair, Space Development Steering Committee; Founding Board Member: Epic of Evolution Society; Founding Board Member, The Darwin Project; Board Of Governors, National Space Society; Founder: The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York Academy of Sciences, American Association for the Advancement of Science, American Psychological Society, Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and Evolution Society, International Society for Human Ethology, Scientific Advisory Board Member, Lifeboat Foundation. In a message dated 2/9/2017 3:22:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, writes:

    Dear Marcus and Colleagues,

    Thanks for your interest. The Chengdu's Conference represented for
    me an occasion to return to my beginnings, in the 80's, when I
    prepared a PhD Thesis: "Natural Intelligence: On the evolution of
    biological information processing". It was mostly following a top
    down approach. But in some of the discussions outdoors of the
    conference (a suggestion for the next one in Shanghai: plenary
    discussion sessions should also be organized) I realized that
    biomolecular things have changed quite a lot. One could go
    nowadays the other way around: from the molecular-informational
    organization of cellular life, to intelligence of the cell's
    behavior withing the environment. The life cycle es essential. It
    provides the source of "meaning" (as I have often argued in
    discussions in the list) but it is also the reference for
    "intelligence". Communicating with the environment and
    self-producing by means of the environmental affordances have to
    be smoothly organized so that the stages of the life cycle may be
    advanced, and that the "problems" arising from the internal or the
    external may be adequately solved. It means signalling and
    self-modifying in front of the open-ended environmental problems,
    sensing and acting coherently... It strangely connects with the
    notion of human "story" and the communication cycle in the
    humanities. Relating intelligence to goal accomplishment or to an
    architecture of goals as usually done in computational realms
    implies that the real life course (or the surrogate) is reduced to
    a very narrow segment. True intelligence evaporates.
    These were some of my brute reflections that I have to keep musing
    around (I saw interesting repercussions for cellular signaling
    "narratives" too). Maybe this is also a good opportunity for other
    parties of that conference to expostulate their own impressions
    --very exciting presentations both from Chinese and Western
    colleagues there.

    Thanks again,

    El 08/02/2017 a las 14:14, Marcus Abundis escribió:
    > In next weeks some further discussion might be started, but at
    the time being, the slot is empty (any ideas?)<

    Hi Pedro,

    For my part I would appreciate a chance to hear more about the
    thoughts you have been developing (even if they are very rough)
    as related to the talk you gave in China last summer.

    Alternatively, further thoughts on Gordana's talk would be nice
    to hear.

    For both of these talks, you both shared your presentation stack
    . . . but there was so much information in both of those talks,
    it would be nice to have some of "unpacked."


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-- -------------------------------------------------
    Pedro C. Marijuán
    Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
    Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
    Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
    Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
    50009 Zaragoza, Spain
    Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)

    Fis mailing list

Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)

Fis mailing list

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