Alex: While I have never worked in a large environment such as the one you are in, I believe I understand the issues. I have filed/refiled bug requests on the two issues mentioned below. Hopefully I am not spittin' in the wind.
What we are trying to do with Flex is to create an environment where the user does not need to leave our application to do most things, and we allow them to bring up many modules at the same time. We need the ability to keep a user within a module preferably without rewriting everything we have done so far. A fellow named Josh suggested I might be able to sub-class the Focus Manager, do you think this is a viable alternative? Paul --- In [email protected], Alex Harui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > In my understanding of accessibility rules, you need some consistent way of navigating to all controls w/o using a mouse. I'm not clear there is an existing pattern for what you want to do, but I'm no expert on the patterns. You mentioned that it works for existing Client/Server apps. How do they switch between panels without the mouse? > > You are always welcome to file bugs and enhancement requests, and now, even patches that propose the fix, but it all gets prioritized and I'd swear that 90% of it never gets done. Sorry for pooping on your ideas, but I'm just voicing my opinion that we've got way bigger fish to fry than those two issues. We also have performance and size issues that make me lean against adding lots of options to our code or doing anything that requires a few more milliseconds for everyone. You aren't the only one I've told not to get their hopes up. I hate being the bad guy, but I also feel bad for those who take the time to submit an issue and have it rejected. Further, I have some idea of what our major goals are for any upcoming release. Based on that, in the prioritization committee, I'll be saying that your two ideas aren't as important as the other issues on our list and probably have workarounds. If you get bunches of votes, that'll pretty much drown me out, and believe me, I get overridden often, but then there'll still be issues of opportunity cost. If it does take me two days to do something, that's probably four other issues that could have been done instead. It's a complicated system of tradeoffs. > > I know it is frustrating when we don't have some feature that is important to you. As we move into the future, my goal is to make more hooks (so you can replace FocusManager if you want to) instead of adding switches and options that make the framework larger. You might see some of that by the time Flex 4 ships, but don't count on it. > > -Alex > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of aceoohay > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:04 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Enhancement, TabIndex > > > Alex: > > How does this work against accessibility rules? > > First, I am suggesting something that enhances flexibility while > leaving the default behavior alone. Second, the current default > behavior irrespective of accessibility rules is counter intuitive. > > Over time I have made two suggestions regarding how Flex should > behave, both of which would make Flex a substantially better product > and in both cases you shot them down because you "won't have time." > Neither of the suggestions are difficult to implement, and both would > provide more control for folks who want to make real business > applications. > > The two suggestions are; > > 1) Fix the bug that causes dataGrid sorting to ralph on it's shoes > when a date or number column has a null value in a cell. In this case > I suggested that a "data type" be definable for colums in a dataGrid > and null's be handled predictably (either sort high or low). > > 2) Fix the bug where tabbing through objects is counter intuitive and > behaves irrationally. Here I suggest that a tab loop "Region" be > definable at a container level. > > In both cases the "workarounds" are cumbersome and make the resultant > code look like a 2nd year programmer's hack job. I would think that > Adobe would want a product that attracts business application > developers, not just web designers. When Adobe's folks (I assume that > you are a member of this group) refuse to even look at changes that > would make it easier for someone doing this kind of development to > make professional looking applications, it makes looking into > Silverlight ever so much more attractive. If Microsoft won't pay > attention at least you can blame it on them being so big. > > Why don't you run it up the flag pole, take a look at how much time > it would actually take to implement, and see if anyone else would > find it a useful feature befor dismissing it out of hand. > > Paul > > --- In [email protected]<mailto:flexcoders% 40yahoogroups.com>, Alex Harui <aharui@> wrote: > > > > No advantages using non-modal popups, just a way to get what you > want. I doubt we'll have time to provide more control over tabbing, > especially in a way that sort of works against accessibility rules. > > > > If you are using ModuleLoader today, you can probably pass the > ModuleLoader to PopUpManager. There'll probably be some other stuff > that needs to be fixed up, but that's what I'd try first. > > > > From: [email protected]<mailto:flexcoders% 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:flexcoders% 40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of aceoohay > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:13 PM > > To: [email protected]<mailto:flexcoders% 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Enhancement, TabIndex > > > > > > Alex: > > > > I am not sure precisely how to do what you are suggesting. > > > > What I currently do is to create modules for each panel, and use > > moduleloader to add them to the stage. Are you suggesting that > > instead I use PopUpManager instead of moduleLoader? > > > > For my existing application it seems like a lot of work, and just > > investigating the ramifications regarding intermodule communications > > and so on may be challenging. > > > > Are there any benefits/drawbacks of using non modal popups vs module > > loader other than the tab loop? > > > > Paul > > > > --- In [email protected]<mailto:flexcoders% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:flexcoders% > 40yahoogroups.com>, Alex Harui <aharui@> wrote: > > > > > > Why not just tile the application with non-modal popups? Wouldn't > > that get you what you want? > > > > > > From: [email protected]<mailto:flexcoders% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:flexcoders% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:flexcoders% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:flexcoders% > 40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of aceoohay > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:26 AM > > > To: [email protected]<mailto:flexcoders% 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:flexcoders% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [flexcoders] Flex Enhancement, TabIndex > > > > > > > > > We write Client Server replacement applications using Flex. One > > > thing that is problematic is the handling of tabIndexing using > > Flex. > > > The problem; > > > > > > Flex use a Tab Loop for the entire application except popups. This > > > means if you are in panel A, reach the end using tab, it will move > > > to panel B, or elsewhere in your application. This is not the same > > > behavior that standard Client Server applications exhibit, and is > > > undesireable. Adding tab indexes makes the problem worse because > if > > > you have multiple panels with overlapping tab indexes, it will > > > bounce back and forth between panels. > > > > > > A Solution; > > > > > > On any container object such as panel, canvas, tabnavigator, hbox, > > > vbox, etc. allow a new boolean attribute "tabLoopContainer" with > > > true and false as the allowable values. This would then cause a > > > local tab loop that would encompass only the objects within that > > > container. The default would be false, leaving the behavior as it > > > currently exists. Any object with a separate tab loop would only > be > > > accessible by mouse click or programatically via set focus. > > > > > > I would like some feedback as to whether this seems reasonable, > and > > > how I can get this in front of someone who could make it hapen. > > > > > > Paul > > > > > >
