Er, Flash 9 Blaze... you knew what I meant. ----- Original Message ----- From: "JesterXL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex2 and Amfphp is it possible ?
Just to confirm, this link has as Flash Player 7 movie created in Flash MX 2004 using Remoting, and a Flex 1.5 Flash Player 7 movie using RemoteObject, both use AMFPHP. This link works in my Firefox 1.5 using the alpha Flash Player 8.5: http://www.jessewarden.com/archives/2005/06/flash_flex_amfp.html I did nothing to those Flash movies to get them to work in Flash Player 8.5; they just do. Neither take advantage of AVM3. To do that, 3 things need to happen: - I need to port the Flex 1.5 app to Flex 2 - I need to port the Flash MX 2004 app to Flash 8 (Blaze, not out yet) - both need AMFPHP needs to support AMF3, which AMFPHP doesn't yet Therefore, when released, Flash Player 8.5 will play all the millions of existing websites the same as they do now. However, none of them will take advantage of the following without re-coding: - AS3's speed - Flash Player 8.5's new features - AMF3 So, for all content created in Flash 8/Flex 1.5, Flash Player 8.5 will detect this, and use the old AVM and the old AMF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Chotin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 3:25 PM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Re: Flex2 and Amfphp is it possible ? Jesse is correct and you're mis-interpreting Phil. The new AVM can communicate using AMF0 if you set that flag on NetConnection. You can then use NetConnection directly against the older server. Additionally AMF3 is not available in the older AVM, it's only available in the new AVM and the code that we are writing for Flex does take advantage of it (since it runs in the new AVM). Matt -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 12:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex2 and Amfphp is it possible ? Jesse, What your are saying sounds great. But it sounds different than what philip is saying. It sounds like you are saying that my current code will work in 8.5 with the new AVM2 but I will have to use the AMF0 flag which means it will be less efficient. It sounds like what philip is saying is that in 8.5 you will have to use the old AVM that is embedded in 8.5 to use AMF0 and the old remoting. This is not great because it is impossible to run AVM and AVM2 code in the same SWF. So if my interpretation of what Philip is saying is correct, then this has no "migration value". It is merely saying the new player wont just break the millions of existing sites out there which you dont really get a gold star for. So, Which one of these two scenarios is correct. Regards Hank. On 12/16/05, JesterXL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Flash will be backwards compatible, like always. However, you'll either > have to use AMF0 for the defaultObjectEncoding property of > flash.net.NetConnection to allow it to work with old content. The optimized > changes to AMF packets + serialization/deserialization means that projects > like OpenAMF & AMFPHP will have to be modified to take advantage of them; > aka, read the new AMF format. > > I don't know how different the format is, but it wouldn't jump from AMF0 to > AMF3 if it didn't rock. Therefore, old content will still work as usually, > and you can still use Remoting with AMFPHP & OpenAMF. I've already tested > my existing content in Flash Player 8.5 and it works. > > What I've yet to see work yet is AMFPHP using AMF3, but I wouldn't expect > Patrick & the AMFPHP crew to start working on it until the player is in > later betas. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "hank williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 11:30 AM > Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex2 and Amfphp is it possible ? > > > Philip, > > Thank you for taking the time to respond to this issue. I do appreciate it. > > But I do have a bit of a concern with what you are saying. It sounds > like you are saying that because of improvments in architecture or > performance, old style AMF remoting may not be possible, or may not be > possible easily. > > This just doesnt sound right. > > These are pretty high level Async protocols, and I cannot imagine any > speed or architectural change that would cause such things to be > unsuportable. Moreover the documentation and others from macromedia > have said that the low level protocol is supported just not the higher > layers. > > So, I appreciate your responding, but it would really be helpful to > understand the technical issues that cause you or others to say that > because of the AVM changes that this stuff may not be supportable. > Because, to me, it sounds like saying "due to speed and architecture > changes flash can no longer support the color RED". > > Regards > Hank > > On 12/16/05, Philip Costa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Sorry I'm jumping in late on this thread, but I was out of the office > > and I've been having email problems. > > > > To follow up on Matt's comment, you have to recognize that with this > > public alpha, we are releasing into the wild much earlier than usual, so > > not everything is resolved. We recognize that AS3/Flex 2 is a big change > > and that moving to it will require some people to rewrite code/change > > infrastructure. Part of the reason for releasing early is to make sure > > we struck the right balance between improving the architecture (which > > often causes breakage) and breaking things (which causes pain). The > > discussion here is definitely helpful in this regard. > > > > With Flex 2/AS3, we did not set out to break compatibility with existing > > Remoting implementations, but that may be a reality of the big changes > > we are making. As with every change, you have to make trade-offs between > > keeping backward compatibility and fixing things for the future. Our > > goal is to build a solid technical foundation that we can use in our own > > products and that others can use in their products; with this release, > > we decided making some painful changes was the right choice for the > > long-term. > > > > To address the specific question about Remoting, we will have more > > information about the future of other Adobe/Macromedia products that use > > Remoting soon as well as information about how other products that rely > > on AMF can make the migration to AS3. But I do want to set the > > expectation that this is going to be a migration, not an upgrade. Player > > 8.5 will continue to run content/applications published to Player 8 and > > below, but to take advantage of the radical performance and functional > > improvements in the new AVM, some things will have to be reimplemented. > > We are absolutely committed to helping the developer community make that > > change, whether they are buying Flex, Remoting or CF from us or > > something like AMFPHP, but at the moment we're in the middle of making > > that change ourselves, so you will have to be patient. > > > > Hope that helps, > > > > Phil Costa > > Group Product Manager, Flex > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of hank williams > > Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:25 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex2 and Amfphp is it possible ? > > > > To add just a little color to this, I use java on the server side, but > > POJOs are useless to me because I return almost all my data as > > ResutSet/RecordSet's. There are a variety of reasons for this including > > the pageablerecordset capability, but the bottom line is that's how I do > > it. Rewriting the old recordset code that supports AMF1, to me, is not > > at all sensitive to the needs of the developer base. And again, we > > don't even know if its possible. > > > > Matt from Adobe just said that he does not expect to be breaking > > anyone's workflows, but I am not sure if that just meant Brian, who is > > using Cold Fusion, but not FlapFlap since he is using AMFPHP. Given that > > PHP is currently the most popular server side tool in the world some > > statement of support for AMF1 would be helpful. > > > > But there are others that think that since AMFPHP is an open source > > "hack" and that Adobe has no obligation to maintain API compatibility or > > continuity with any existing protocol. Instant deprecation is no > > problem. > > > > If this is Adobe's position on this issue and to open source in general > > - or not, I would love to hear it directly from Adobe in clear, no > > nonsense terms. > > > > Therefore, if any Adobe management is listening, and if appropriate, > > just detach the below letter, sign and return. I will forward to the > > appropriate constituencies. > > > > <snip> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ----------------- > > December 16, 2006 > > > > From: Adobe > > To: Open Source Community > > Non Cold Fusion/FDS users > > PHP Users > > > > RE: The needless breaking of your existing server communication > > solution > > > > > > Screw You. > > > > > > Warmest Regards, > > > > > > ___________________________________________ > > Signed Adobe Management Team > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------ > > <snip> > > > > On 12/15/05, Brian Lesser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi Dave, > > > This thread started with a query regarding using the open source AMF > > > PHP software that a number of people have been using for some time to > > > build Flash/AMF/PHP based applications. Developers in that space > > > naturally want to continue to use the server-side code base (in PHP) > > > they have been building out along with the new standalone Flex 2 IDE > > and AS3. > > > However, it appears from the Alpha, and from what I gather Mike has > > > been saying, that this will not be possible without reinventing a > > > number of > > > AS3 classes such as RecordSet from scratch. Perhaps worse, though I am > > > > > not into PHP, is that it may not be possible at all if any code relied > > > > > on the NetConnection.addHeader() method. This useful, public, and > > > documented method of the NetConnection class has not been implemented > > > and is still under discussion within Adobe. So, unless I'm missing > > > something in what you wrote, I don't think it is reasonable to suggest > > > > > PHP developers simply switch to using Web services and Java POJOs. > > > I always understood that something like AS3 would to some degree have > > > to break AS2 and AS1 code and that at some point a new document object > > > > > model might break many APIs. But I do not believe Adobe has to > > > completely break everyone's Flash Remoting applications from end to > > end. > > > I sincerely hope that NetConnection.addHeader reappears in the beta. I > > > > > also hope that if Adobe doesn't do it, someone else will come up with > > > a solid AS3 RecordSet implementation that works flawlessly. I wish I > > > knew for certain if that was even possible. > > > I also think this discussion should give everyone pause. Imagine it is > > > > > 20 months from now. Perhaps, like the ill fated Flash Remoting Gateway > > > > > Servlet MM tried to sell at $999/CPU, the essential parts of Flex Data > > > > > Services will be reverse engineered and available as open source for a > > > > > number of different server-side technologies. Will Adobe once again > > > rewrite everything to make it better and in the process break all its > > > public APIs? Will every Java developer be left wondering if Adobe is > > > just trying to remonetize AMF or if they just don't have the > > > financial/developer resources to retire an API gracefully? > > > In any case, some caution about breaking third party developer's > > > applications from end to end seems appropriate. > > > Yours truly, > > > -Brian > > > > > > Dave Wolf wrote: > > > > > > >I don't understand why you can't simply use <mx:WebService/> to > > > >replace <mx:RemoteObject> in most cases. Using AXIS you can use the > > > >exact same POJO you might have used in a <mx:RemoteObject/> and do so > > > > > >without the need for any gateway. > > > > > > > >- > > > >Dave Wolf > > > >Cynergy Systems, Inc. > > > >Macromedia Flex Alliance Partner > > > >http://www.cynergysystems.com > > > > > > > >Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Office: 866-CYNERGY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- In [email protected], hank williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >>As far as I know there is not yet. > > > >> > > > >>There was some discussion about this on the flashcoders list when > > > >>flex2 came out. I made a pretty big deal about the fact that the > > > >>docs seem to indicate that standard remoting will not be something > > > >>that is supported. > > > >> > > > >>Mike Chambers (a MM employee) indicated that it was supported. But > > > >>what he meant was that it was supported at a super low level and you > > > > > >>would essentially have to write all the low level remoting code for > > > >>this. > > > >> > > > >>It seemed pretty clear to me that their intent was to, ahem, > > > >>**encourage** remoting users to buy cold fusion or Flex Data > > > >>Services, in order to do painless remoting, and that they were > > > >>essentially orphaning anyone who was not doing remoting with one of > > > >>their pricey gateways. > > > >> > > > >>Now, perhaps this post will bring adobe employees out of the > > > >>woodwork crying foul and saying I am wrong. But the fact that there > > > >>is any ambiguity about this isssue, is, in and of itself, a real > > problem. > > > >> > > > >>The fact that that there is not some strong statement of continued > > > >>**full** support for traditional remoting is, to me, shameful. > > > >> > > > >>Regards > > > >>Hank > > > >> > > > >>On 12/15/05, Flapflap <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>Hi there, > > > >>> > > > >>>Because RemoteObject isn't available on Alpha is there a way to > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >use flex > > > > > > > > > > > >>>2 with amf php ? > > > >>> > > > >>>Thanks... > > > >>> > > > >>>By the way : Hello World ! > > > >>> I'm new to this list. > > > >>>-- > > > >>>Flapflap > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>-- > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > Brian Lesser > > > Assistant Director, Teaching and Technology Support Computing and > > > Communications Services Ryerson University 350 Victoria St. > > > Toronto, Ontario Phone: (416) 979-5000 ext. 6835 > > > M5B 2K3 Fax: (416) 979-5220 > > > Office: AB48D E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > (Enter through LB66) Web: http://www.ryerson.ca/~blesser > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Flexcoders Mailing List > > > FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt > > > Search Archives: > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Flexcoders Mailing List > > FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt > > Search Archives: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Flexcoders Mailing List > > FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt > > Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Flexcoders Mailing List > FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt > Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > -- > Flexcoders Mailing List > FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt > Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! 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