Ask and ye shall receive :) http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/flex/articles/frontback_pt1.html
-- Dave Wolf Cynergy Systems, Inc. Macromedia Flex Alliance Partner http://www.cynergysystems.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Office: 866-CYNERGY --- In [email protected], "Jason Hawryluk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Dave, thank you for that explanation and clearing things up. I'm still > fairly new to the interaction design process, and my assumptions are based > on what I've studied. Perhaps not the best approach. > > I'm always willing to learn new more robust, and productive way's to > accomplish my goals. It's often difficult to identify the optimal middle > ground in a very small company. > > I look forward to your articles on DevNet. > > Jason Hawryluk > > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] la > part de Dave Wolf > Envoyé : jeudi 13 avril 2006 23:47 > À : [email protected] > Objet : [flexcoders] Re: **JOB **Flex developer needed ASAP (Contract to > hire!!). > > > Hey Jason, > > I am going to try my best to inline my answers here. > > --- In [email protected], "Jason Hawryluk" <jh@> wrote: > > > > Dave, I fully realize the potential of Flex to let you crank out an > > application quickly. You have a "Team" of people this is a > requirement for > > "one" contractor. The thing that got me was the �rollout� part of the > > demand. > > > > You're right. We do have "teams" here at Cynergy. I think its worth > noting though that in the applications I am discussing, these teams > have ranged from 1 to 3 people. I've seen posting in the past where > people talk about their projects with 30-40 devs. I cannot honestly > fathom what problem set they're trying to solve. > > > > > > > I agree that when you fully understand the domain of the intended > �user� of > > the product then yes that is quite possible. Having no idea of the user > > base, and their goals, infrastructure, budgets, requirements, and > resources, > > how is this assumption possible? > > > > > > It's of course not. The key is to develop a process by which you can > extract those requirements as a part of the development process > itself, rather then some incredibly extended requirements gathering > phase. First off, the longer that phase takes the less relevant the > data you collect actually becomes. Secondly dependant on how you > collect it, (traditional JAD approach) the value of what you learn can > be pretty suspect. > > > > > Cranking out a product that fit�s someone�s specifications, and > creating a > > tool that is goal/task oriented, and helps the �user� accomplish > what they > > need/want in a coherent fashion, are 2 different things. > > > > > > Could't agree more. I think if you interviewed the folks we've done > this development for, they'd tell you what they got was the latter. > > > > > A certain percentage of the time required before any code is written is > > spent interviewing management, users, understanding the goals and > tasks that > > a product needs to fulfill. > > > > > > Our approach here at Cynergy is to not view these as distinct phases. > Rather to incorporate the domain experts into the development process > from moment one, in the most transparant way possible. We accomplish > this by a development approach we call LookFirst, but really is a > "front to back" development approach whereby the requirements > gathering and "interviews" are done in real time with the development > of the user experience. The actual creaative act of development is > used as a requirements gathering process. > > BTW at this point I should mention that we are currently writing a > series for Adobe's DevNet where we will go through our approach and > how to use it yourself. > > > > > > A software program should not be something that enforces a work > method, and > > because the person usually in charge of writing specs is IT (more > often then > > not, that person has not done the necessary foot work). What I mean > is, you > > end up with a product that just fills a business need from a management > > perspective, and does not take into account segmented departmental user > > goals. > > > > > > I contend a long interview and requirements gathering phase does > nothing to alleviate this. There is nothing intrinsic in the JAD > process that fixes this shortcoming. > > > > > > So, sure cranking out data entry forms, or lists of data that fulfill a > > business �need� is rapid. However, is that a solution that will help > the > > user do their job? Will that solution allow different user types > > (commercial, management, technical, administrative) to fulfill their > role in > > the organization as efficiently as possible? Will the program have a > memory > > for example so it can make assumptions based on past user interaction? > > > > > > Well, if I had assumed we were talking about simple CRUD screens I > would have said hours or days, not weeks for a prototype.... > > As I mentioned before, from moment one the domain experts are sitting > right next to an interactive designer, a RIA developer and a data > modeller. They talk to and listen to the domain experts and in real > time, right in front of them start putting together that user experience. > > If you want to see a domain experts eyes light up like a kid at a > candy store, turn their wants and desires into something they can see > and touch right in front of them. They will become animated, > interested, involved and will provide you a level of information and > requirements you couldnt have extracted in months. > > > > > I don�t believe in creating a tool that �only� fulfils the business > > requirements from a management perspective. The users know how to do > their > > job. I would rather take the time to confirm that the product will meet > > their goals and tasks, and give them a product that helps them do it > better > > based on �real� information. Management rarely understands this. > Software > > has become a necessary evil that enforces uneducated assumptions on the > > user, instead of a pleasant, and comfortable tool that �helps� a user > do > > their job. > > > > > > As do we. Thats the whole point of this approach. > > > > > So while you may be able to do this in 6 months rollout, and all. I > don�t > > believe one person can do this �correctly� in 6 months. Now of > course that > > all depends on the size of the application, of which we have no idea. > > > > Prototypes in weeks? Whole business in 6 months? It takes weeks just > to get > > through the interview process, identify roles, identify goals for > each role, > > tasks for each goal, and confirming this research. > > > > Your internal processes, and goals are apparently quite different > then mine. > > > > Our goals are not. The way we deliver those goals to our clients > indeed are. > > I can only point to our successes as proof the approach works. > Whether is obvious places you can look to like our MAX Award > nomination last year, or the Fortune 100 clients we have done just > this for in the last 4 months alone. > > Just as the RIA has been a disruptive technology that will re-shape > the way we look at web-based applications, so will the front-to-back > approach be a disruptive influence that reshapes the way we develop them. > > We know we can deliver better software faster and at considerably less > cost to our clients by working this way. We know when we put the user > experience first and foremost, usefulness follows naturally. > > -- > Dave Wolf > Cynergy Systems, Inc. > Macromedia Flex Alliance Partner > http://www.cynergysystems.com > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Office: 866-CYNERGY > > > Jason Hawryluk > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] la > > part de Dave Wolf > > Envoy� : mercredi 12 avril 2006 20:09 > > � : [email protected] > > Objet : [flexcoders] Re: **JOB **Flex developer needed ASAP (Contract to > > hire!!). > > > > > > > > Off topic I guess, but six months for a prototype? We've been rolling > > out pretty major applications in Flex from soup to nuts in six months. > > > > To me all the sex appeal aside, some of the biggest value in Flex is > > what a productive canvas it is to work within. Between Flex, great > > devs, good tools and frameworks, we're cranking out applications > > people are then running a whole business on in under six months. > > Prototypes.... we're talking weeks. > > > > -- > > Dave Wolf > > Cynergy Systems, Inc. > > Macromedia Flex Alliance Partner > > http://www.cynergysystems.com > > > > Email: dave.wolf@ > > Office: 866-CYNERGY > > > > --- In [email protected], "Jason Hawryluk" <jh@> wrote: > > > > > > Sorry if this sounds harsh, or like a rant... > > > > > > > > > > > > You know I think about this kind of thing, and always wonder who in > > their > > > right mind consultant, or not would sign on to an already "presumed" > > 6 month > > > project. Unless they have really done their homework (unlikely) how > > do they > > > know that 6 months is enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > So what they really should say is your going to develop this miracle > > > product, and oh it must be done in 6 months. Ready to deploy. > Then they > > > plunk the old "needed ASAP" onto that. > > > > > > > > > > > > I smell disaster about to happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you read it it says prototype, ok that makes sense 6months for a > > > prototype no problem. Then the next phrase has "rollout"?. Then > the big > > > hook. "Since client has already defined design specs". > > > > > > > > > > > > So to summarize they have a demand for a report generator > > "prototype" that > > > will be "rolled" out "live" in "6months" based on the "clients > specs" > > > authored by an individual that most likely has no knowledge of Flex > > at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't mean to be a pain but, could you please repeat the question? > > > > > > > > > > > > I just don't get it. Maybe it's just me. :) > > > > > > Jason > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > De : [email protected] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] la > > > part de wessam_jad > > > Envoy� : mardi 11 avril 2006 20:01 > > > � : [email protected] > > > Objet : [flexcoders] **JOB **Flex developer needed ASAP > (Contract to > > > hire!!). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Position Needed: Flex Developer > > > Duration:6 months contract to hire. > > > > > > Role Description � Consultant will be responsible for creating > a new > > > reporting interface prototype using Macromedia Flex. Prototype > will > > > most likely be developed using Flex 1.5. Subsequent versions could > > > be developed in Flex 2.0. Consultant will be responsible for > > > upgrade, replication, and rollout. Consultant will also > participate > > > in daily knowledge transfer sessions. Since client has already > > > defined design specs, consultant is generally expected to complete > > > assigned development tasks. > > > > > > Desired Skills: > > > -6 months Macromedia Flex 1.5 / 2.0 development experience > > > -data warehouse, business intelligence experience > > > -Excellent communication skills > > > > > > send your resume ASAP to wjad(at)esginc(dot)com > > > www.esginc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Flexcoders Mailing List > > > FAQ: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt > > > Search Archives: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > > -- > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > a.. Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. > > > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Flexcoders Mailing List > > FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt > > Search Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > a.. Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! 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