SHORT
Adobe, I believe will play by the rules and they are a reasonable biz partner.
But as Borat might say Microsoft "If she cheat on me, I will Crush her!"
LONG
Stay with the issue that's been taken off, so we can let this end, I responded simply to warn people about things I've leanred in nearly 20 years; probably about as long as you've beeen alive possibly ---- the guy who started this thread implied Adobe wasn't a reasonable business partner and they are - I was giving a counter-example of someone proven by law not to be a good business partner: Microsoft.
I am a .Net programmer both large medical apps and sites; and flash since 1997primarily as sites, but now as apps. I've taught entire companies how to use Flash.
Flash is becoming a truly beautiful programming environment with FLEX 2.0.
.NET controls, if you've worked with the plethora of them as I have, cannot even begin to compare in visual appeal as a Flash app integrating FLEX.
Enter "Sparkle" and my earlier comments.
And as far as this word you brought up "conspiracy" what does that quick-overused-defense have to do with a sheet of paper that has things written on it from whom you call m$ have anything to do with the topic.
I'm simply putting out a fact based warning regarding "a good business partner" and that, as just one example, that MS is not a good business partner as they licensed Sun's java and then they hacked it to perform badly as a JVM in IE, they were caught and paid $20m for it. Same with Quicktime years before, same with Blue Mountain v Microsoft just several years ago using Outlook as the preventing mechanism <<< they have ways to impede FLEX and THEY WILL TRY. Old Bills don't learn new tricks they just wither.
There are dozens of example more; you obviously have a ways to go in learning about both companies and how Microsoft fights an "enemy" << by the way, that's a word, not a conspiracy, so is the word "club" and the word "head" and "dead" and "desktop" and so is ray Ozzie's baby "notes" -- that enough for you to see this is a dangerous company with a front? I know facts you don't.
And if you don't think MS looks at Adobe as an enemy, read up. Also realize Eolas just won a lawsuit against ms regarding it's use of ActiveX in IE effecting Flash but there is a working around by using the popular "flashobject" (Google or Yahoo it, stay away from MSN if you like your Favorites Folder not to be retrieved (it's fact that it's possible in some version of IE to do this Valey not conspiracy); fact is fact, conspiracy as a defense is ignorance (no harm implied it's simply the only word, or should I say ignorance is bliss).
MS hardly ever gives in to lawsuits, they're paying EU $1M a day still because they won't comply with equal competitive rules.
It all comes down to Sparkle. I research this stuff regularly as part of my duties. MS has been caught recent making very jealous statements at 2 companies: Google and Adobe. And nearly all editors agree right now, there is an upcoming battle of Adobe v Microsoft.
Microsoft, well Bill's not really a programmer as he claims (QBasic doesn't qualify, while Jobs is Smalltalk and variants do qualify), and the other guy has seemed to lost every truth of hair left on his head.
I'm not one bit afraid or intimidated by anyone at Microsoft. I've loved them and now I only use their tools when asked to by a client, or there's a particular reason.
I simply believe we have a FRESH Platform from Adobe and I believe in it and I don't want anyone to be mis-lead, in fact I want people to be on the lookout so some of the hold outs can be informed and more of the truth many have seen in documents with their own eyes can be told to the pubic.
Innovative Inventors & Patent TROLLS
The Truth About Microsoft Patents and ISVs
A call to all MS ISVs to check your State Laws
Due 2007.
Anyone who copies the title before it's published -- thanks for the PR.
One of the many titles I'm considering for my book.
-r
Valy Sivec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Robert, I'm kinda reluctant when I see people that know absolute truth and see all sorts of conspiracy around them.
I believe M$ did a lot to this industry ( I'm not even a .net programmer ) in terms of innovation and software development and at this moment Adobe(Macromedia) still have to grow to be at that level. I'm not saying Flex is not a great product, just can't say Flex is best when still need workarounds for a lot of things. BTW, some workarounds are presented as "patterns" or "features", look no further than "singleton" pattern.
Flex has great potential, but it will be interesting to see if Adobe will be able to create a great product. Historically speaking, JRun is/was a decent product but never GREAT....Hope Flex will became a GREAT product along other products. In case Flex will the ONLY GREAT product, then we''ll see Adobe acting as M$ does now ( remember Flex pricing scheme). I'm done with this posting and hope that flexcodders won't be offended in anyway, it wasn't my intention.
Best regards,
Valy
Robert Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Okay Valy, let's end it here...I did not start the commentary.
The response was from a message to someone asking if Adobe is a reasonable business partner -- a pretty serious accusation and there's plenty of room for response to this accusation; and that's all.
Although I agree commentary should not be going on a lot, that was a serious implying sort of suggestion -- that they are not, when in fact Adobe and the Macromedia developers are great business partners. I've been involved in Flash since 1997 so I have a lot of history here.
Microsoft is not a reasonble business partner and that's the only thing I added, and mark my words they intend to use DirectX and Direct3D (something I myself programmed in the past) and Sparkle to minimize Flash. And then have a viewer on the Macintosh. Why all this? Because FLEX 2.0 is very powerful at Applications.
I've seen evidence of this regarding Lotus Notes that I don't even think Ray Ozzie who is there now has seen, and words perhaps like "kill the enemy" and "club them over the head with the Windows desktop" are words that you should think about -- I'm not saying anything beyond that, but I know how they compete and I've done my research.
And if you don't know about the upcoming battle re: Sparkle and MS's plan to at the very least minimize Flash as a true cross-platform client server solution on to of the very same Java they were proven to have licensed and then hacked [and those are very deceitful motives], then you should read up my friend and not continue your own commentary when the issue was already answered.
I did not start it. Maybe you can stop it and relax a little....read a little about the issues that will be coming up....and they will....and I'm sure you know I'm rooting for Adobe. They are everything MS is not -- look at the inability of MS to come out with even the least Graphics program; or the way graphcs are dealt with in Word Sad. Finally we have a great competitor in the market who's not guilty of breaking the law.
Uh...kind regards...and consider perhaps my eyes have seen things yours have not...then go back to the guy who asked the question. Any further commentary is your own and would be frankly hypocr.
-r
Valy Sivec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Is this kind of message adding any value to the flexcoders comunity? I don't think so. I think that this forum should stay focused on Flex core issues and let time speak about how successfull is Flex vs.others or how much better is Adobe vs.other software vendors.
Kind regards,
Valy
Robert Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:You guys at ADOBE are doing great and are going far above what many organizations will do. And most of all YOU CAN BE TRUSTED.
Anyone (like this guy) who complains about support in a Beta should have a little more patience. By the way, you may want to make sure he doesn't have an alias named "Steve Barkto" (Google "Steve Barkto Incident" :-)
Plus, everyone is into FLEX 2.0 and it's spreading fast -- I'm an unofficial "evangelist" for Flash --- and for 4th of July, I'm going to warn everyone of the dangers of trusting sparklers too close to their eyes -- WARNING, WARNING only works on Dindows full of security holes...use Java FLASHERS they're cooler and they got an infusion of $20 Million from a lawbreaker...his name is...well I mentioned him above.
Just sit back and watch the FLEX 2.0 show and build a long-term solution with a Partner that CAN BE TRUSTED client and server. I'm finally excited about development again.
I'm 38; CS maj. lots of experience with Mick Softy (again that gangster guy) and I'd say the next 10 years of the development part of my life are dedicated to helping Adobe win the upcoming "War for the Desktop [mobile top]".
As Dvorak said "They're now an Albatross". Ha, that was my nick name in track and field when I ran an 8:52 2 mile and broke a 17 year old freshman record. But I don't think Dvorak was complimenting the gangster who's getting old and will soon face his creator.
I loved seeing Bono on Conan kind of avoiding any real association with Mick Softy. Bono has been at it for years, the nerd steps up and gives so little relatively and in such short notice (good for Africa, but as Jesus said "This women [who gave 2 cents] gave more than all of you because she gave all she had).
Sparkles fade away slowly; But Flashes leave an image.
Truth be told, I plan on releasing a lot more truth should it be allowed.
And I have much more public information besides that.
I've already been threatened personally and dangerously, I have nothing to lose by putting out the truth. Softy is going down and money can't buy you love -- well it bought you something...and it'll be cashed in soon enough by time.
-r
Matt Chotin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Update: weâve worked with Jim off-list to resolve his issues.
From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Robson
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 4:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [flexcoders] Is Adobe a reasonable business partner?
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
__._,_.___
--
Flexcoders Mailing List
FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt
Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com
SPONSORED LINKS
| Web site design development | Computer software development | Software design and development |
| Macromedia flex | Software development best practice |
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
- Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web.
- To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
