Franck, I agree with you, but... how do you handle security in a stateless back-end? I mean... how do you maintain logged-in / user session information? Or unauthorized access of the web services by others? If Flex is *completely* agnostic of the back-end technology then how do you securely link them together?
Darren >From: "Franck de Bruijn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com >To: <flexcoders@yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Re: Choice of backend systems - which provides >best functionality >Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:03:24 +0200 > >Hi Barry, > > > >Im not sure if I can be of much help here. Im not into PHP, Im not into >FDS and remoting and the AMF protocol that is related to it. For me, but >that is totally a personal opinion, the only acceptable solution for >communication with a back-end is webservices, and nothing else. Briefly >here >are my reasons: > >* The coolest thing about Flex is not the graphics ... but that you >can make your server stateless, meaning that you obtain 100% fail-over >characteristics including linear scalability. With FDS (or any other >related >solution) you highly likely lose this feature and my guess is that >scalability will be tougher to achieve; for sure it is harder to guarantee >... with a stateless server solution you can. And we always want to grow >with our applications, dont we??? >* I like to keep my Flex layer totally independent of my back-end >layer. My back-end layer should not be aware by any means of the client >technology. With webservices you realize this. With FDS (or any other >related solution) you get a vendor lock-in, which I consider undesirable. >* The trend in my business is that more and more you get projects only >for a front-end or back-end solution. In the past it occurred more that you >had to build them together, but that is changing. Its very acceptable to >request a back-end to expose its operations through webservices. Its not >very accetable to request them to expose it via FDS or something like that. > > > >To be fair, there are some disadvantages using web services as well; among >others: > >* No automatic conversion of the web service results into your custom >action script classes. You have to make converters yourself to accomplish >this. With FDS/AMF I understand you can have this conversion automatically >done for you. >* Performance. People tend to say that webservices are slow. Its true >that the serialization/deserialization of the XML (both on client and >server) side takes computing time. My experiences so far are that this >extra >computing time is not causing any serious damage in the user experience. >* Flex has some trouble communicating with DOC/Literal encoded >webservices. Especially in the .Net corner this is causing problems. But >that should be temporarily ... The adobe guys are working on it and >hopefully in a next release these issues will be fixed. > > > >For me the advantages of webservices by far outweigh the disadvantages. So >if you ask me: use webservices! You keep your freedom ... > > > >Cheers, > >Franck > > > > > > _____ > >From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of barry.beattie >Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 9:50 AM >To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Choice of backend systems - which provides best >functionality > > > >Franck and Doug: may I be so bold as to include here some information >I sent to our programming team for them to have some context? > >I offer it here as a talking point only - and would invite any >comments or corrections to help me gain a better understanding myself >... this has just been gathered by my own ad-hoc investigations. the >context of the email was a report that Adobe were seriously targeting >PHP developers for Flex. > >------------------------------------ >regarding Flash remoting: some background to put it into context: > >there are three basic ways of getting communication happening between >a SWF (now-a-days built with Flex) and server-side code: > >webservices >XML HTTP requests >Flash Remoting (using the Async Message Format - AMF) > >PHPAMF (Flash remoting with PHP) is not a Macromedia/Adobe product. It >was reverse engineered by the PHP community to use Flash remoting. >It's been around for a few years (that I know of) and may be even more >popular than CF-AMF (don't know for sure) > >here's the important bit: > >PHPAMF, OpenAMF, the Adobe .NET/ Java remoting add-in and ColdFusion >6.1 remoting all use the AMF0 protocol. ColdFusion 7.02 and >FlexDataServices (Java) all use AMF3 > >What's the diff? 2 things: >Apart from some removal of dumb stuff-ups and a reduction of data >packet size (thanx to new encoding), AMF3 is very strongly typed which >allows a seamless (and easy) mapping/conversion between server side >objects (eg: Java value objects and ColdFusion's CFC's). This is why >FlexBuilder can have a simple wizard to take your CFC and create >Actionscript classes from it (and/or visa-versa). Before it was all >manual with a tonne of testing (eg string to numeric conversions, etc). > >[NOTE: the follow paragraph is total speculation] > >Also, inside the latest Flash player (Flash9) there are actually 2 >players. An older for backwards compatability and the latest "hot-rod" >that has had some amazing improvements in functionality and speed. >Expect to see the use for the older player depricated in less than 5 >years (the new player in Flash9 is like starting again). AMF0 is for >the older player, AMF3 for the newer. > >Will Adobe release their own PHPAMF using AMF3? I'm not sure, since >they aren't bothering to upgrade the .NET/ Java remoting add-in (I've >checked). But if they do, you can be assured that they will charge >well for it - just like the .NET/ Java remoting add-in (almost as much >as a CF licence). > >Will the PHP community re-engineer their remoting for AMF3? Quite >possibly. they're smart people. But I haven't herd anything yet.... > >my gut feeling? Adobe will try and push remoting onto everyone so they >can take up Flex 2 and buy Flexbuilder. they'll have to support it >somehow. see the note below about WebOrb... > >ADDENDIUM > >I have deliberatly not mentioned 2 products: > >WebOrb, a pricey but full featured product that is an alternative to >FlexDataServices (and runs AMF3) for .NET and Java - and - (comming >soon) PHP and Ruby! (http://www.themidni ><http://www.themidnightcoders.com/index.htm> ghtcoders.com/index.htm) >Fluorine, an open source project for Flash (AMF3) and .NET >(http://fluorine. <http://fluorine.thesilentgroup.com/fluorine/index.html> >thesilentgroup.com/fluorine/index.html) > > > -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! 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