> On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:01:29 -0400
> David Megginson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 18:35:07 -0400, Chris Metzler
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> 
> >> 5.  I don't know anything about how these signs are handled outside
> >> the U.S.  If you do, let me know.
> > 
> > I'd be interested in knowing more about how these signs are handled
> > inside the US.  I've flown my Warrior to several US airports --
> > Massena (KMSS), Caldwell (KCDW), Philadelphia (KPHL), Boston/Norwood
> > (KOWD), Republic (KFRG), and Plattsburgh (KPLB) -- and I do not
> > remember ever seeing signs like you describe, though I might have
> > missed them in the clutter at KPHL.  I suspect that these might be a
> > special case for a tiny handful of airports, not a common feature.

David, I have yet to notice a U.S. runway used for commercial service
that does not have them.  However, because of their coloring and 
placement, they tend to be easily overlooked unless you _want_ them.
That is, of course, a good thing ... avoid unnecessary distractions.

Oh, and I noticed their presence in Manchester and Basel-Mulhouse too.
There may be an ICAO rule for airports with international service
that was the original impetus for sign installation on major rwys ...

From: Chris Metzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I'd be stunned if they weren't at KPHL.  I've never flown into/out of
> there, so I cannot say. 

I have and would have remembered if I had noticed them being missing.
Of course, that doesn't mean that they really _were_ there, sigh.

> And, sadly, I'm only hoping to be a pilot
> in the future, so I definitely can't speak to small airports --
> which, of course, are most of the airports out there.  But they're
> a fixture at larger airports here; when I land in an airliner, I
> always look out the window for these signs to see how much of the
> runway the pilot uses.

Yes, but that isn't strictly fair on the pilots.  Just because they
have to plan with balanced runway technique in mind does not mean
that they _need_ as much runway as you observe being used.
The takeoff profile at most airports is specified by noise abatement.
Multiengine only have to stay in ground effect until blue line speed.
Also, I often stay in ground effect to at least Vy for performance
reasons ... even if I'll subsequently use a Vx climb to the pattern.


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