I've started a wiki page to help gather our thoughts. http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Post-FSS+Planning
Add your notes to that wiki page and hopefully it'll help us in our research. On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Colin Clark <[email protected]>wrote: > Great! This is work for Infusion 2.0, which we don't have a formal date > for yet. The plan is to release 1.5 (the last of the 1.x line) in the next > couple of months. From there, we'll likely release a couple of 2.0 beta > releases before cutting 2.0 final sometime in the next year. > > So we've got lots of time. :) > > Colin > > --- > Colin Clark > http://fluidproject.org > > On 2013-09-18, at 10:06 AM, Johnny Taylor <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hey, > > > > I'd like to get in on this, too. But I haven't a lot of time to dedicate > to much extra-cirriculuar activities at the moment. What kind of timeline > were you looking at? > > > > Johnny > > > > On 2013-09-18, at 9:54 AM, Colin Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Hi Jon, > >> > >> Thanks! That's awesome. It'll be a fun project. > >> > >> Colin > >> > >> --- > >> Colin Clark > >> http://fluidproject.org > >> > >> On 2013-09-18, at 9:11 AM, Jonathan Hung <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Colin, > >>> > >>> Thanks so much for bringing this back to the top. Glad to hear that > FSS is going to get some attention going forward. > >>> > >>> I'd be willing to initiate / facilitate the research into 3rd party > tools if no one else steps forward. I imagine others will have input on > this as well. > >>> > >>> - Jon. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Colin Clark <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> Hi all, > >>> > >>> There hasn't been any activity on this thread in two months, so I > guess we don't have a huge wave of creative ideas for the future direction > of FSS. > >>> > >>> We're planning to significantly refresh and simplify Infusion for > version 2.0, which we will likely release within a year. Now seems like the > time to start deprecating aspects of Infusion that we aren't planning to > bring forward with us. > >>> > >>> Here's my proposal: > >>> > >>> 1. Deprecate the FSS in Infusion 1.5. We'll continue to support it > fully until we have a viable replacement. > >>> 2. Start a research effort to look at third-party CSS tools, selecting > one that we will use in UI Options as well as for our demos > >>> 3. Ship this new third-party tool and any additional supports needed > by Infusion users in version 2.0 > >>> > >>> Thoughts and comments? Is there anyone who is willing take a lead on > #2? > >>> > >>> Colin > >>> > >>> --- > >>> Colin Clark > >>> http://fluidproject.org > >>> > >>> On 2013-07-03, at 3:08 PM, Colin Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi Jon and everyone, > >>>> > >>>> On 2013-07-03, at 10:24 AM, Jonathan Hung <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Recently Justin, Heidi, and I have been talking about FSS and we > were wondering if we should continue maintaining FSS or transition to a new > strategy. > >>>> > >>>> Have you considered what the alternative strategies might look like? > If so, could you describe them for us? > >>>> > >>>>> Specifically, it seems that browser standards compliance, third > party CSS frameworks (like Twitter's Bootstrap), and CSS languages (like > Sass/SCSS, or Less) have advanced sufficiently that it could replace FSS. > However, if we make a change to using a CSS framework, this will affect > other Infusion components like UI Options. > >>>> > >>>> Can you elaborate on how these different technologies might serve as > a replacement for FSS? What roles would they play, specifically? We've got > some very diverse tools listed here--Sass is quite different from, say, > Bootstrap, and works at a lower infrastructural level. Can you guys > describe how you imagine we might use these technologies? > >>>> > >>>> Johnny Taylor seems incredibly enthusiastic about Sass, which is a > good sign. > >>>> > >>>>> Conversely, maintaining FSS is complex due to: > >>>>> - the different theme implementations (FSS comes with 10 themes) > >>>> > >>>> My impression is that most of the "demo" themes--rust, mist, > etc.--are long overdue for being deprecated and removed. The themes used by > UI Options, however, are foundational for doing transformation of web > applications. Are you thinking that we'd replace these with something else, > somehow? > >>>> > >>>>> - the FSS CSS itself is like the API (modifications must be done > with consideration to the effect on end users) > >>>> > >>>> I'm not sure I understand what this means. Can you explain? > >>>> > >>>>> - lack of resources to maintain and improve it (some styling methods > used in FSS seem a bit antiquated like using .PNG images to create > different button borders for themes). > >>>> > >>>> Yes, I agree. I've tried to encourage efforts to address these legacy > weaknesses in FSS, but so far no one has been willing to take on the job. > Given that, I'm not averse to simply choosing an existing framework > (Bootstrap, Foundation, or one of the many, many others out there) and > offering it up both for our own development and for our users. > >>>> > >>>>> Do we: > >>>>> 1. maintain status quo (no changes) > >>>> > >>>> I don't think this is a good idea to maintain the status quo for FSS, > but we do need someone who wants to take on and lead a renewal effort. > >>>> > >>>>> 2. explore re-implementing FSS using another framework like > Bootstrap (and keep FSS classnames the same) > >>>> > >>>> I think we will have to consider how to preserve backwards > compatibility, especially for UI Options users who have sprinkled FSS class > names throughout their apps. We could certainly consider streamlining the > class naming conventions we use (they're pretty long), but I think we do > also want to support the use case where people are mixing up framework > classes with their own. Most CSS frameworks that I've encountered tend to > use unprefixed names that will cause conflicts with many existing > stylesheets, which is a shame. > >>>> > >>>>> 3. deprecate FSS > >>>> > >>>> Presumably we still need something to power UI Options, so I'm not > sure if this a viable option. Or am I missing something? > >>>> > >>>> I hope this helps, > >>>> > >>>> Colin > >>>> > >>>> --- > >>>> Colin Clark > >>>> http://fluidproject.org > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________________ > >>> fluid-work mailing list - [email protected] > >>> To unsubscribe, change settings or access archives, > >>> see http://lists.idrc.ocad.ca/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> JONATHAN HUNG > >>> > >>> INCLUSIVE DESIGNER, IDRC > >>> > >>> T: 416 977 6000 x3951 > >>> F: 416 977 9844 > >>> E: [email protected] > >>> > >>> OCAD UNIVERSITY > >>> Inclusive Design Research Centre > >>> 205 Richmond Street W, Toronto, ON, M5V 1V3 > >>> > >>> www.ocadu.ca > >>> www.idrc.ocad.ca > >> > >> _______________________________________________________ > >> fluid-work mailing list - [email protected] > >> To unsubscribe, change settings or access archives, > >> see http://lists.idrc.ocad.ca/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work > > > > -- *JONATHAN HUNG* INCLUSIVE DESIGNER, IDRC**** ** ** *T:* 416 977 6000 x3951**** *F:* 416 977 9844**** *E:* [email protected]**** ** ** *OCAD UNIVERSITY***** Inclusive Design Research Centre**** 205 Richmond Street W, Toronto, ON, M5V 1V3**** ** ** www.ocadu.ca**** www.idrc.ocad.ca
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