Quoting Kathy Forer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Fuck that shit! This is what I think. It's complicated and I wasn't > sure who was who*, but what I said makes the most sense to me. >
You said what you think, but you were trying to make sure I was impressed and suitably silenced by what you think (a suppression?). I can assure you that if you had just expressed your concern for suppression of legitmate voices, I would have taken you seriously without the need for power strategies designed to reduce my state. > How does telling the truth the way I see it -- given the history we've > attempted to establish here of open dialogue without concern for civil > polity -- beat up on anyone in particular? Who are you protecting? I am not protecting anyone specifically. However, you were not *just* telling the truth the way you see it, you were attempting to *force* its acceptance. > Are you saying no one can be "beaten" unless they are insecure? > What do you mean by beaten, who was beaten? You, joseph & donna, or > karei? Or, are there two different subjects, the one accused of NOT > having deep seated insecurities and the other already beaten? No - I was just pointing out that the "Dear xxx" strategy is only successful against opponents with insecurity, as it depends upon them succombing in the face of disdain. I haven't treated you with disdain, why are you treating me with such? Not that I am asking for kind treatment, I am more than capable of "defending" myself, however I would prefer it otherwise. > How is that? > Creating and maintaining a persona can be a very dangerous game. > Sometimes it's kinder not to play. > How about this...I am a very large man - perhaps we should as a society allow me to walk to the first position in any line I choose to stand in. There is no law against it, and if you tried to shove me out of the way, I first could not be budged and second could have you arrested for assault. > Yes, a voice was lost. In a bottomless wallow. Of what I'm not sure, > but our feeding it just made it worse. "Nothing that would further" > given the situation as it was. Again, the voice was not lost. Unless you want to murder the original before it is heard, a voice will find a way to live. If you feel it must be defeated, you should confront it and deal with what it has to say. > I feel badly for the death monster, our creation or hers.** But not so > badly that I'd want to continue to support it as it grew to be > something else entirely, something ugly and tiresome. The wizard of oz > without toto. You are judging and convicting based upon a small sliver of time. While I don't agree with all that K+ does, I find quite a bit of usefulness (and beauty) in what he has to say. joseph & donna www.electrichands.com joseph franklyn mcelroy corporate performance artist www.corporatepa.com go shopping -> http://www.electrichands.com/shopindex.htm call me 646 279 2309 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER CUPCAKEKALEIDOSCOPE - send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quoting Kathy Forer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > On Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 12:38 AM, joseph (yes=no & yes<>no) > wrote: > > > Quoting Kathy Forer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > >> She really had you fooled, dear Echo. > >> > > > > Hi Kathy, are you trying to maintain a voice of superior reason? > > Fuck that shit! This is what I think. It's complicated and I wasn't > sure who was who*, but what I said makes the most sense to me. > > It's my story. And I'll stick with it. On a, er, purely subjective > basis. > > > The dear xxxx > > strategy is only useful against people with deep seated > > insecurities...and all > > you accomplish is beating up on somebody who is already beaten. > > How does telling the truth the way I see it -- given the history we've > attempted to establish here of open dialogue without concern for civil > polity -- beat up on anyone in particular? Who are you protecting? > > I meant "dear," for the nymphs all loved Narcissus. > > Are you saying no one can be "beaten" unless they are insecure? > What do you mean by beaten, who was beaten? You, joseph & donna, or > karei? Or, are there two different subjects, the one accused of NOT > having deep seated insecurities and the other already beaten? > > > It sort of > > makes you cruel, don't you think? > > How is that? > Creating and maintaining a persona can be a very dangerous game. > Sometimes it's kinder not to play. > > > > >> The only legitimate voice lost was hers, and ours reflected in hers > >> and > >> hers reflecting hers back again. Ad nauseum. Allen threw that > >> babycheeks out with the bath water -- where it belongs. > > > > Do you think that a voice was lost? It seems more like hands over the > > ears to > > me. > > Whose hands over whose ears? If it was ours, well, for a good reason. > Kandinskij walks in, posts a couple of interesting but un-remarked upon > links, Eryk says he's "off this list, too." K replies "Have a nice > time?" You interject a pleasant (or not: was it code?) ditty about > watermelons and summer. K replies "Nobody was speaking to you" and the > list is shortly subsumed by one person. > > At one point early on, Roger replies "Anything addressed to Fluxlist is > to everyone." You concur... and K replies > You may disagree, but that is based only into your own narcissism. > And reality doesn't revolve around your "I" and the nonsense you attach > to it. > and again > Avoida ttempting to dictate your ego, psychotic murderous ape. > > And my perception, if I'm allowed to accept and honor it, was that the > mouldering list was subsumed by K's attempts to break down the > (apparent) impenetrability of an ego-wall with whatever tactics are at > hand. In this case, narcissistic self-absorption. > > Yes, a voice was lost. In a bottomless wallow. Of what I'm not sure, > but our feeding it just made it worse. "Nothing that would further" > given the situation as it was. > > The greatest mental trap is a worldview that insists upon its > uniqueness and > correctness. You, my friend, are trapped. [From: "joseph (yes)"] > > No need to prolong the pain. Anyone's. > I feel badly for the death monster, our creation or hers.** But not so > badly that I'd want to continue to support it as it grew to be > something else entirely, something ugly and tiresome. The wizard of oz > without toto. > > > > * (and given the other things going on "at that time," I didn't pay > much more than passing attention to it, though it seemed a very > familiar and tedious self-righteous and juvenile game, for some reason.) > > What WE have pointed out about you is that you attempt to "use" art > to peddle idiocy in order to put down, degrade, PUT HUMANS TO SLEEP > and feed on their energy. > > > This my dearest is not ART. This is the domain of a CONMAN. > [From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" ] > > "Artistry. What is it? > I wonder on this thought. > Is it the ability to successfully con people or is there more involved?" > > > ** (there was an objection made that K was not a she, but I chose to > say she as I am a she. > I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together. > Maybe also something to do with animus... but I'm not sure what that > is.) > > > It's late. I've violated the text only <red> no code policy </red>. > > > > > > joseph & donna > > www.electrichands.com > > joseph franklyn mcelroy > > corporate performance artist www.corporatepa.com > > > > go shopping -> http://www.electrichands.com/shopindex.htm > > call me 646 279 2309 > > > > SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER CUPCAKEKALEIDOSCOPE - send email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> On Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 09:37 AM, joseph (yes=no & yes<>no) > >> wrote: > >> > >>> This is not what was happening. Loosing a legitimate voice (sans > >>> violence) is a > >>> self-inflicted misery and fear of such happening is an insecurity > >>> (note that > >>> this is an opinion derived through inner reflection and as such, > >>> since > >>> I do not > >>> KNOW ultimate truth, is probably subjective). > >> > >> She really had you fooled, dear Echo. > >> > >> The only legitimate voice lost was hers, and ours reflected in hers > >> and > >> hers reflecting hers back again. Ad nauseum. Allen threw that > >> babycheeks out with the bath water -- where it belongs. > >
